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  1. #1
    Administrator hitony's Avatar
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    Legal Advice Required (Home refurbishment is the issue)


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    I am doing a very extensive refurb,well in excess of £400k - the client (home owner) choose Karndean flooring for the master bedroom en-suite and the guest bathroom, he also requested that we fit the very expensive shower trays in both rooms as low as possible, to create a walk in shower effect, this we did, we allowed for self leveler and 3mm Ply then of course the Karndean.

    Our flooring contractor stated that Karndean is not suitable for a wet room floor, this is correct albeit neither rooms are wet rooms, but because the shower trays have been set to a level to create no upstand, on both shower trays where you enter the shower will be level to the finish floor.

    The Architect is now saying they want a tiled floor, this will mean us taking up the trays and raising them to accept tiles (I'm not going to go into great detail on this as its just not worth it, but trust me if we leveled the floor and fitted a decent floor tile the edge of the tile WILL be higher than the tray which is not acceptable)

    We installed these trays to stay in place, my honest feeling is that to try and remove them they will break / crack etc, both these trays are very expensive trays, my plumber who is extremely experienced told me that if we try and take them up they will highly likely crack etc.

    Right, thats a brief background of the situation, what I would like to know is:
    1) The client chose the flooring product, is it his responsibility to check its fit for purpose?
    2) should the architect have checked its suitability - fit for purpose?
    3) should I have checked if its fit for purpose? I have karndean in my bathroom, we have lived here 11 years never had a problem, go on the karndean website it shows many photos of it being in bathrooms BUT it does state not to be used in a wet room.

    The client did ask for the level to be set as low as possible, in fact congratulated me on succeeding in doing so, of course this was prior to the contractor sticking his opinion in.

    I really do need to know on items 1,2 and 3 above, the installation etc and brief background I have given is to try and give the reader an idea as to whats gone on.

    Any solicitors or knowledgeable replies are very welcome, I appreciate we have some plumbers on here, I don't really want to go into the installation of it too much unless its relevant.

    Thanks in advance

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      What does the agreed spec say?And what kind of contract did you sign up to?JCT Minor Works?
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      Administrator hitony's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by chimneys View Post
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      What does the agreed spec say?And what kind of contract did you sign up to?JCT Minor Works?
      The agreed spec states "Karndean and the type / colour" ........Yes JCT Minor works
    • #4
      Members Chicken Run's Avatar
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      Do what the client asked for and get him to sign saying he instructed you!
      Last edited by hitony; 18-02-2017 at 07:38. Reason: Changed want to what
    • #5
      Administrator hitony's Avatar
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      I removed the shower tray product name as it made this thread view able via Google.
    • #6
      Administrator hitony's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Chicken Run View Post
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      Do want the client asked for and get him to sign saying he instructed you!
      He wont sign anything, he is doing everything via his architect, he is also a very rich business man, we had a site meeting on Tuesday (normal monthly meeting) it is like going into a high powered board meeting each time! I've been involved in building management for 33 years and this guy is the worst I have ever come across! wish I had never got involved in it to be honest, everyday is a nightmare, this issue is just one of many! but the others I have managed to sort, this one is potentially a very costly one, for someone!
    • #7

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      Was the low level of shower tray documented in spec?

      In any event, as it's not d&b it seems you were merely following orders and reckon an adjudicator would find likewise.

      No one wants to get contractual but looks like you might have to on this one. Presume job is virtually finished?
    • #8
      Seaweed! Seaweed! GoldWithFalmer's Avatar
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      Architect will have to be assassinated...
      (Not a legal expert,but here's my thoughts)
      Point 1-for me it's a no.
      Point 2-yes in this case,still no.
      Point 3-always communicate with the man at the coal face-Mr Plummer.

      All joking aside,if you do as instructed what's the problem?

      I assume (perhaps wrongly) it's a profit thing.
      Last edited by GoldWithFalmer; 18-02-2017 at 08:00.
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    • #9
      Administrator hitony's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by chimneys View Post
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      Was the low level of shower tray documented in spec?

      In any event, as it's not d&b it seems you were merely following orders and reckon an adjudicator would find likewise.

      No one wants to get contractual but looks like you might have to on this one. Presume job is virtually finished?
      No it was not specified in the spec, just a verbal request ............Yes it will get contractual..........i wished the job was close to finishing! it really is one step forward and two back, this week has been a total nightmare!.......I have given a completion date of 7th April but this flooring / shower issue has cost me 3 weeks of time, so I have put in for extension etc
    • #10
      Administrator hitony's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by GoldWithFalmer View Post
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      Architect will have to be assassinated...
      (Not a legal expert,but here's my thoughts)
      Point 1-for me it's a no.
      Point 2-yes in this case,still no.
      Point 3-always communicate with the man at the coal face-Mr Plummer.

      All joking aside,if you do as instructed what's the problem?

      I assume (perhaps wrongly) it's a profit thing.
      I appreciate anyone's comments, I don't just expect all solicitors to come forward ........without going into all the past of this job, its not a profit thing anymore, this is a potential costly issue though, that aside this is one of many many issues the client / architect has come up with, with most I have treated it as "he is the customer so lets try to please etc" that attitude has now completely gone! it is now an extremely bad marriage!

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