[Politics] Brexit

Baldseagull · Sep 5, 2019

Brighton Lines said:
Labour does want a general election. You know that. No-one would be foolish enough to allow it before this bill has passed though. But you know that too.

If we were not so badly in need of a Government, I would like to see the opposition not agree to an election and let Johnson limp on, getting beaten in every vote. It is a possibility in our system currently, another aspect of our system that relies on MP's behaving decently, behaviour which sadly can no longer be relied upon.

nicko31 · Sep 5, 2019

So we know where the Tories are going to lose seats - Scotland, London and parts of the south.

But assuming Farage and his oddballs stand in the election where are they going to gain seats? Are they now just a one trick English nationalist pony?

100 one nation Tories demanding the expelled 21 are re-instated. Cummins is seriously toxic for them...

Lever · Sep 5, 2019

bashlsdir said:
They are all a bunch of liars
Dingodan is correct, it's pretty much over in my book.

How stupid of me to think our politicians would listen to the views of people.

Not all politicians are habitual liars; some are, some aren't - as in any other large group of people. You just happened to put your faith in the ones who are duplicitous and self-serving.

Grombleton · Sep 5, 2019

bashlsdir said:
They are all a bunch of liars
Dingodan is correct, it's pretty much over in my book.

How stupid of me to think our politicians would listen to the views of people.

You could argue they have; Brexit hasn't been stopped, just a no-deal ruled out (so far). Even if Brexit doesn't happen, at least 16m will be happy.

This was never going to make everyone happy and bring everyone together, ever.

daveinplzen · Sep 5, 2019

Brexiteers bleating about 'taking back parliamentary control' for a couple of years, now bleating about parliamentary control. Im guessing you only wanted parliamentary control to fit your own emotional wishes.

Hugo Rune · Sep 5, 2019

nicko31 said:
But assuming Farage and his oddballs stand in the election where are they going to gain seats? Are they now just a one trick English nationalist pony?

One would assume that all Tory candidates will now be Brexiteers open to No Deal.

If Farage puts his loons up against them, they’ll split the leave vote. Will they do this?

On the other hand, will the Lib Dem’s put candidates out for every seat? Remainder split votes for them and Labour could see the Tories pick-up a lot of marginals.

My prediction:

Johnson will do a deal with Farage for all his candidates to stand down in exchange for a commitment to No Deal. Johnson will then renege on this Deal when he wins the next election as the EU will be able to offer a much better deal to a Brexit Parliament rather than a remain Parliament. We will leave with a Deal early next year.

Is it PotG? · Sep 5, 2019

Grombleton said:
You could argue they have; Brexit hasn't been stopped, just a no-deal ruled out (so far). Even if Brexit doesn't happen, at least 16m will be happy.

This was never going to make everyone happy and bring everyone together, ever.

Let's just say for one moment, it doesn't happen and we bow to our Euromasters ad perpetuum.The evident frustration and anger with Leavers is not likely to simply dissipate overnight, and if anything will be augmented. Political parties with no place in a settled, calm post-Brexit will find support in a splintered society alas. On a day when Carney confounds all of the monetary experts on NSC, I just find it all a little bewildering.

https://news.sky.com/story/bank-no-deal-brexit-not-as-bad-as-we-predicted-11802146

Blue Valkyrie · Sep 5, 2019

So it's *no deal* for sure now, either on October 31st or January 31st, depending on when an election date is.

Johnson is not negotiating, is lying about it, and has no intention of ever negotiating.

Johnson will win the election with a healthy majority and *no deal* us all - with nothing we can do about it.

God help us.

Gwylan · Sep 5, 2019

Hugo Rune said:
Johnson will then renege on this Deal when he wins the next election as the EU will be able to offer a much better deal to a Brexit Parliament rather than a remain Parliament. We will leave with a Deal early next year.

What better deal? The EU will protect its border and won't throw Ireland under a bus. It's up to the UK to come up with a suggestion as to how to do it. The backstop, the only suggestion so far, has been rejected. If there's an alternative, then why hasn't the UK government suggested it.

It's also going to be far from true that all Tories will be in favour of No Deal. Remember that the majority of them were Remainers and there will be many who are going to be unhappy about going into an election on a No Deal manifesto - Theresa May, being just one.

Kinky Gerbil · Sep 5, 2019

nicko31 said:
So we know where the Tories are going to lose seats - Scotland, London and parts of the south.

But assuming Farage and his oddballs stand in the election where are they going to gain seats? Are they now just a one trick English nationalist pony?

100 one nation Tories demanding the expelled 21 are re-instated. Cummins is seriously toxic for them...

Hmmm, I am in a tough spot.

I have nothing in common with the Brexit party, however would a tactical vote for them in Crawley help the Tories lose seats?

Lever · Sep 5, 2019

Is it PotG? said:
Let's just say for one moment, it doesn't happen and we bow to our Euromasters ad perpetuum.The evident frustration and anger with Leavers is not likely to simply dissipate overnight, and if anything will be augmented. Political parties with no place in a settled, calm post-Brexit will find support in a splintered society alas. On a day when Carney confounds all of the monetary experts on NSC, I just find it all a little bewildering.

https://news.sky.com/story/bank-no-deal-brexit-not-as-bad-as-we-predicted-11802146

I agree with that point!

Grombleton · Sep 5, 2019

Is it PotG? said:
Let's just say for one moment, it doesn't happen and we bow to our Euromasters ad perpetuum.The evident frustration and anger with Leavers is not likely to simply dissipate overnight, and if anything will be augmented. Political parties with no place in a settled, calm post-Brexit will find support in a splintered society alas.

I agree with you. It also acts as a comfort that the leave side could then be told 'you lost, get over it' and find it massively patronising and be (rightly) annoyed by it. Like some have been saying for the past 3 years.

Is it PotG? · Sep 5, 2019

Grombleton said:
I agree with you. It also acts as a comfort that the leave side could then be told 'you lost, get over it' and find it massively patronising and be (rightly) annoyed by it. Like some have been saying for the past 3 years.

That'll work. Everyone will laugh, put the hat on the side of their head and skip back to normal daily life whistling a tuneful ditty.

Kinky Gerbil · Sep 5, 2019

Lever said:
I agree with that point!

I disagree, there will be grumbling - but a large number wont really care.

cheshunt seagull · Sep 5, 2019

dingodan said:
The electorate were asked, and their instruction is going to be ignored.

Bit odd to suggest we ask them again, in view of the fact that their answer will be ignored.

Why would they even bother answering the question a second time if their answer doesn't actually make any difference?

Different question. Still as I have said before you would much rather tell them what form of Brexit they are getting than give them any chance to present their view.

daveinplzen · Sep 5, 2019

The lying ***** have been found out. Even by brexiteers now, and guess who is whinging the loudest.

Mo Gosfield · Sep 5, 2019

bashlsdir said:
They are all a bunch of liars
Dingodan is correct, it's pretty much over in my book.

How stupid of me to think our politicians would listen to the views of people.

If you cock a snook at authority, normally, authority exerts its control again fairly quickly. The 2016 vote was an anti-establishment vote and it surprised and ruffled a lot of feathers. The Establishment were caught out by the unexpected result and have been marshalling resources ever since, trying to steer us back toward the status quo. The huge machinations of the deep state, working against a stirred up populace, many determined for change and a poor quality current political class, confused as to whether as to appease or oppose, party before country or vice versa etc and we have a boiling pot. A mess.
We have had well over 20 years of poor quality politicians in this country and it should be no surprise we are where we are.

Hotchilidog · Sep 5, 2019

Hugo Rune said:
My prediction:

Johnson will do a deal with Farage for all his candidates to stand down in exchange for a commitment to No Deal. Johnson will then renege on this Deal when he wins the next election as the EU will be able to offer a much better deal to a Brexit Parliament rather than a remain Parliament. We will leave with a Deal early next year.

My prediction Labour will either win or lead a coalition in the next parliament. They will pursue a soft Brexit and put it to the people in a confirmatory vote. I'd still vote remain but I could live with something that does not completely hamstring this country. Whilst there is a vocal minority in favour of no-deal the public at large has no stomach for it and a compromise soft Brexit seems to marginally be the most popular option amongst the people.

The Tories will lose some seats to the Lib Dems particularly in their former strongholds of the SW. The tories will be wiped out in Scotland. My gut also says that when faced with a vote for labour government or five more years of Boris Johnson the north will not crumble in the way people expect.

The 2017 election was called by May (majority 30) when the tories were 24 points ahead, one terrible campaign later she had blown it. On this week's evidence who on earth thinks the next tory campaign will be better. It will be dirtier that is for sure, but the mask has slipped further from this government. The pound shorting JRM's contempt for the Commons and Boris's pitiful bluster and lies have shown this government up for what it is, a total shambles.

Thunder Bolt · Sep 5, 2019

Blue Valkyrie said:
So it's *no deal* for sure now, either on October 31st or January 31st, depending on when an election date is.

Johnson is not negotiating, is lying about it, and has no intention of ever negotiating.

Johnson will win the election with a healthy majority and *no deal* us all - with nothing we can do about it.

God help us.

[tweet]1169498019655487489[/tweet]

Grombleton · Sep 5, 2019

Is it PotG? said:
That'll work. Everyone will laugh, put the hat on the side of their head and skip back to normal daily life whistling a tuneful ditty.

It's amazing people thought it would work after the referendum result.

Someone will have to reconfigure the Ppf Bot so it has one less soundbite to use.

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