[Politics] Brexit

beorhthelm · Jan 31, 2019

ManOfSussex said:
Said like a true, smug little English Brexiteer blaming it all on The EU again.

once again, not in favour of leaving any more. its a simple fact that the backstop is designed by EU. i dont blame them, i blame all the incompetent politicans. the EU have more power, im sure you'd agree, so have more options to change things.

Bob! · Jan 31, 2019

Blue Valkyrie said:
The issue I can't understand is :

- *No deal* means no backstop.

- Supposedly the UK wants the deal with no backstop attached.

- The EU doesn't want the deal with no backstop.

So logically there is no way for the EU to get a backstop... deal or *no deal*.

Why not have a deal without a backstop given there can be no backstop ?

So the EU is waiting for the UK to cave - which it won't as *no deal* is an acceptable outcome for the ones pulling the strings, indeed maybe the plan anyway.

So, a Customs union then?

Simster · Jan 31, 2019

ManOfSussex said:
Said like a true, smug little English Brexiteer blaming it all on The EU again.

Regardless of blame, he's right. The backstop doesn't solve anything for anyone.

Gwylan · Jan 31, 2019

Simster said:
Obviously we'll have to hope Ireland hasn't joined Schengen

I'm surprised that Ireland hasn't made noises about this already. Ireland joining Schengen would really shake things up

Simster · Jan 31, 2019

Gwylan said:
I'm surprised that Ireland hasn't made noises about this already. Ireland joining Schengen would really shake things up

All the while both the UK and Ireland are in the EU, it has to be a bilateral decision, but obviously that changes shortly. My gut feeling is that they simply wouldn't do that, because that is tantamount to ripping up the GFA every bit as much as the UK's stupid idea of quitting the EU.

ManOfSussex · Jan 31, 2019

beorhthelm said:
once again, not in favour of leaving any more. its a simple fact that the backstop is designed by EU. i dont blame them, i blame all the incompetent politicans. the EU have more power, im sure you'd agree, so have more options to change things.

Simster said:
Regardless of blame, he's right. The backstop doesn't solve anything for anyone.

I'm afraid it does. There's no alternative, it upholds (just) the Good Friday agreement and we agreed to it in 2017 before we decided to renege on it at the 11th hour. Saying it's designed by The EU is still seeking to blame them I'm afraid, it's fully endorsed by Dublin and I don't see them banging at doors to change it and if it was to be the Fine Gael Government falls and it's about far more than just cross border trade anyway as it tentatively solves a lot of things in Ireland in regards to Brexit.

Now more than ever it's needed with what The UK is becoming.

Rodney Thomas · Jan 31, 2019

beorhthelm said:
no deal and blaming the UK for the outcome wont actually help the Irish.

But neither will no backstop or a hard boarder. Or indeed letting the UK hold Ireland to ransom in the future with threat of revoking any backstop.

vegster · Jan 31, 2019

The Clamp said:
We were confirmed yesterday that we are having our hours cut. I’m losing £216 a month, flat out. That’s almost £2’600 a year which is a massive chunk of our disposable income. Luckily I can pretty much make it up in overtime but working 12.5 hour shifts , at night in a very volatile environment I really don’t enjoy overtime. I need my rest and I need time away from the dangerous , stressful environment.
So I’ll be working more hours for less money than I’m on now.
And at a time when the cost of living is soaring.

Thanks leave voters. I’ll look forward to picking up my hours again “in the long run”.
You have no idea what you have done to the people of Britain.

The usual suspects will say along the lines that we will have to suffer in the short term and tighten our belts and become globally more competitive, when that happens, after 5-10-15 years of minor hardship the sunny uplands will be revealed to us and we will plough forward together in a new spirit of unity and mutually beneficent capitalism.

Of course the reality is that those at the bottom end of the ladder will endure most of the belt tightening and if ever we get to the sunny uplands all the usual suspects will have got there before us and will have carved up any benefits amongst themselves already. I think that you and I are very much in the same boat along with millions of others who just exist rather than live their lives in our current version of " Society ", who's lives are going to be further hit by a needless Brexit.

Baldseagull · Jan 31, 2019

beorhthelm said:
just because they say its based off BoE estimates, doesnt make it so. to qualify this, if we really had the originally projected growth, our economy would be growing faster than Germany - do you believe that?

We were growing faster than Germany prior to the referendum, so it is not ridiculous to suggest we would be now is it?

Rodney Thomas · Jan 31, 2019

The Clamp said:
We were confirmed yesterday that we are having our hours cut. I’m losing £216 a month, flat out. That’s almost £2’600 a year which is a massive chunk of our disposable income. Luckily I can pretty much make it up in overtime but working 12.5 hour shifts , at night in a very volatile environment I really don’t enjoy overtime. I need my rest and I need time away from the dangerous , stressful environment.
So I’ll be working more hours for less money than I’m on now.
And at a time when the cost of living is soaring.

Thanks leave voters. I’ll look forward to picking up my hours again “in the long run”.
You have no idea what you have done to the people of Britain.

I'm really sorry to hear that!

ManOfSussex · Jan 31, 2019

beorhthelm said:
no deal and blaming the UK for the outcome wont actually help the Irish.

No deal and blaming the EU won't help the British either.

Either way, there'll be plenty of overtime in Ireland if you're a PSNI or Garda officer though.

Triggaaar · Jan 31, 2019

A1X said:
So Article 50 got revoked? Fantastic.

Have you got a bit confused with Brexit? May's proposed deal respects the GFA vote. So the government have respected it. They couldn't get the vote through the house, but the evidence is that whatever deal they do try and get through, will respect the GFA.

Baldseagull · Jan 31, 2019

beorhthelm said:
once again, not in favour of leaving any more. its a simple fact that the backstop is designed by EU. i dont blame them, i blame all the incompetent politicans. the EU have more power, im sure you'd agree, so have more options to change things.

It wasn't designed by the EU, it was designed by the UK negotiators.
The problem is not the backstop itself, it is how it is finished with. the EU wants to be able to have the final word on whether it can be ended, ERG bunch want the UK to be able to decide for itself when it can be ended, it is demed necessary by both sides to be there, but there is a possibility that there is no end to it, mostly because the technology that the ERG claims existed for magic borders when that lie suited, doesn't exist.

Simster · Jan 31, 2019

ManOfSussex said:
I'm afraid it does. There's no alternative, it upholds (just) the Good Friday agreement and we agreed to it in 2017 before we decided to renege on it at the 11th hour. Saying it's designed by The EU is still seeking to blame them I'm afraid, it's fully endorsed by Dublin and I don't see them banging at doors to change it and if it was to be the Fine Gael Government falls and it's about far more than just cross border trade anyway as it tentatively solves a lot of things in Ireland in regards to Brexit.

Now more than ever it's needed with what The UK is becoming.

No, I'm afraid it doesn't. The reason the EU agreed to it is that it doesn't deliver Brexit to Northern Ireland. Considering this is one of the UK's red lines, it only serves to highlight May's arrogance and indeed ignorance of her own tenuous position. Nothing is possible until the UK are not beholden to 10 DUP MPs who don't even speak for Northern Ireland on Brexit.

A1X · Jan 31, 2019

Triggaaar said:
Have you got a bit confused with Brexit? May's proposed deal respects the GFA vote. So the government have respected it. They couldn't get the vote through the house, but the evidence is that whatever deal they do try and get through, will respect the GFA.

And if they can't get a deal through?

nicko31 · Jan 31, 2019

The Clamp said:
We were confirmed yesterday that we are having our hours cut. I’m losing £216 a month, flat out. That’s almost £2’600 a year which is a massive chunk of our disposable income. Luckily I can pretty much make it up in overtime but working 12.5 hour shifts , at night in a very volatile environment I really don’t enjoy overtime. I need my rest and I need time away from the dangerous , stressful environment.
So I’ll be working more hours for less money than I’m on now.
And at a time when the cost of living is soaring.

Thanks leave voters. I’ll look forward to picking up my hours again “in the long run”.
You have no idea what you have done to the people of Britain.

Really sorry to hear that, do one needs that.

I can see it the government are going to try and blame everyone else but themselves.

Even if we stopped Brexit tomorrow and forgot it ever happened, permanent damage has been done to us economically and socially...

ManOfSussex · Jan 31, 2019

Simster said:
No, I'm afraid it doesn't. The reason the EU agreed to it is that it doesn't deliver Brexit to Northern Ireland. Considering this is one of the UK's red lines, it only serves to highlight May's arrogance and indeed ignorance of her own tenuous position. Nothing is possible until the UK are not beholden to 10 DUP MPs who don't even speak for Northern Ireland on Brexit.

Brexit, as per May's red lines from her fantasy Mansion House speech, could never happen for Northern Ireland as well unless The Good Friday agreement was ripped up. Unless we're now going for a full permanent UK wide customs union/EEA option etc, it's the Withdrawal Agreement with backstop, or no deal and rip up the GFA. The backstop isn't going to be altered. The WA was the best and only outcome on May's red lines. Unless they change, we are where we are and stuck with the backstop if we want to leave with the WA deal.

Kinky Gerbil · Jan 31, 2019

Simster said:
No, I'm afraid it doesn't. The reason the EU agreed to it is that it doesn't deliver Brexit to Northern Ireland. Considering this is one of the UK's red lines, it only serves to highlight May's arrogance and indeed ignorance of her own tenuous position. Nothing is possible until the UK are not beholden to 10 DUP MPs who don't even speak for Northern Ireland on Brexit.

You can see the DUP are loving this.

Smugly standing up in parliament knowing they have ultimate control.

Held to ransom by terrorists.

nicko31 · Jan 31, 2019

Heard Jeremy Hunt talking this morning about trade sanctions against Venezuela

Bit rich coming from a government proposing trade sanctions on ourselves in 57 days?

Two Professors · Jan 31, 2019

The Dutch have had this system ready for a while,but we are unable to sign up to it until after March 29th.Time to tell the EU to stuff it and sign bi-lateral deals now.

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