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[Misc] Penalty Charge Notice Advice Needed



S

smileyweb

Guest
Ladies and gents of NSC.

I've previously received and successfully appealed a "PCN" on private land, using the tried and tested methods regularly discussed on here.

However, yesterday I received a ticket from Horsham District Council for an on-street parking offence.

I want to appeal it, due to the parking sign wording being ambiguous.

I read it as "non-permit holders can only park here between 10am and midday", but apparently it means exactly the opposite - even though the other half of the street (New Street, in Horsham) is "non-permit holders can park after 10am".

Someone that lives there told me that it happens all the time, as lots of people do what I did, and that she only knew what the sign meant as she lives there.

Do I have any chance of appeal, or am I wasting my time fighting a council-issued ticket and should just pay up?

I had parked there so I could walk into town and do a small shop in Poundland, before signing-on as I'm between jobs at the moment...

....so if there's any way I can save the £35 charge, your advice will be very gratefully accepted!

Thanks folks.
 

Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Oct 27, 2003
20,922
The arse end of Hangleton
The ticket will show how you intially appeal to the council and then, if they reject it, you can appeal to the indepedant adjudicator.

When you appeal take the time to provide as much detail as possible and detail exactly why you think the sign is deficient. The council WILL attempt to bully you in to paying. Also worth posting on www.pepipoo.com but make sure you upload redacted copies of the front and back of your ticket.
 

Notters

Well-known member
Oct 20, 2003
24,865
Guiseley
The ticket will show how you intially appeal to the council and then, if they reject it, you can appeal to the indepedant adjudicator.

When you appeal take the time to provide as much detail as possible and detail exactly why you think the sign is deficient. The council WILL attempt to bully you in to paying. Also worth posting on www.pepipoo.com but make sure you upload redacted copies of the front and back of your ticket.

Is that true? I made a similar in Brighton once and they accepted my apology.
 

Titanic

Super Moderator
Helpful Moderator
Jul 5, 2003
38,975
West Sussex
If you can, take photos of the signs, and one including the sign and the the place you parked... so there can be no dispute about the wording or which signs apply to the area you were parked in.
 


Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,859
Crawley
Are you sure it doesn't say "permit holders only can park here between 10am and midday"?

There is a document you can find online called The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002, in it you will find the rules the Council have to work to, if the sign they used does not conform, you have a case, if it is a sign approved for use and properly placed, you don't, at least not on the grounds you mention.
There are a shed load of other faults the council may have made that you can appeal against though, go to pepipoo.com and ask there. I look for defective signage when I have to work in London and then park there, have not paid for parking, unless I was only stopping for an hour or so for about 5 years now, always get a ticket, always appealed and won.
 

Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Oct 27, 2003
20,922
The arse end of Hangleton
Is that true? I made a similar in Brighton once and they accepted my apology.

Badly worded .... I meant once the council have rejected your initial appeal ( which they normally do ) they will attempt to bully you into paying while the independant appeals process moves forward.
 


Diablo

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Sep 22, 2014
4,172
lewes
If you believed it to allow you to park and you can get local to back you...go for it,council may accept but if they don`t stick to your guns and see them in court...Expensive for them...they will back out unless they have cast iron case.Put signs exact wording on here.
 
I'm fairly sure that the sign will show the nationally recognised NO PARKING sign, followed by the wording "between 10am and midday permit holders only".

This obviously doesn't mean "non-permit holders can only park here between 10am and midday", and you won't be able to argue that it does. The Highway Code will make it clear how signs like this are supposed to be read, and - as a licensed driver - you are expected to know this. Trying to pass yourself off as confused won't impress the Council.
 


Papak

Not an NSC licker...
Jul 11, 2003
1,851
Horsham
So glad I have off street parking in Zone E and don't have to worry about all this BS anymore.
 
S

smileyweb

Guest
WP_20150203_11_25_33_Pro.jpg

Picture (hopefully) attached.

A) Am I right to be confused / is it as it should be, legally?

B) Nope, you're a f*ckwit. Shut up and pay up.

I'm off to do an AITC after-school club, and will be back online later this evening. Please be gentle with me...
 

Brovion

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 6, 2003
19,295
I read it as saying "Between 10 and 12, Monday to Saturday, except on Bank Holidays only permit holders can park here." In other words if you parked there between 10 and 12 without a permit (on weekdays and Saturdays) you'd get a ticket. At other times, and on Sundays and Bank Holidays, you'd be fine.

I grant you the wording is rather terse, but as Lord B says it's pretty standard.
 


The Large One

Who's Next?
Jul 7, 2003
52,343
97.2FM
I read it as saying "Between 10 and 12, Monday to Saturday, except on Bank Holidays only permit holders can park here." In other words if you parked there between 10 and 12 without a permit (on weekdays and Saturdays) you'd get a ticket. At other times, and on Sundays and Bank Holidays, you'd be fine.

I grant you the wording is rather terse, but as Lord B says it's pretty standard.

Yup.

And BTW, can you not call me again at 5am and leave me a two-minute recording of you snoring, please? Thanks gawd I had flight-mode on. Ta. :)
 

seagullsovergrimsby

#cpfctinpotclub
Aug 21, 2005
43,690
Crap Town
I read it as saying "Between 10 and 12, Monday to Saturday, except on Bank Holidays only permit holders can park here." In other words if you parked there between 10 and 12 without a permit (on weekdays and Saturdays) you'd get a ticket. At other times, and on Sundays and Bank Holidays, you'd be fine.

I grant you the wording is rather terse, but as Lord B says it's pretty standard.
The sign is laid out in such a way that it will catch out people who only see the P and the times , the wording "Permit holders only" at the bottom instead of the top is a sure money earner. Answer = B
 

wehatepalace

Limbs
Apr 27, 2004
7,286
Pease Pottage
You should of parked in the bay nearest Brighton Road Baptist Church, when the street lights were changed they took away the sign for that parking bay and now all tickets for that bay are unenforceable.
I own a business on New Street and to be fair the Traffic Wardens are pretty good and fair, also HDC are very good when you appeal a ticket, if you write to them and explain that you've made an honest mistake and misread the sign, you may be surprised at the response.
Also if you ever need your car looking at by a very Albion friendly garage, pop in and see me (opposite the church) at the bottom of New Street.
 


Brovion

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 6, 2003
19,295
Yup.

And BTW, can you not call me again at 5am and leave me a two-minute recording of you snoring, please? Thanks gawd I had flight-mode on. Ta. :)
:blush: I don't think it was snoring, I think it was 'pocket noise' which may be worse....

Anyway, profuse apologies, didn't have the keypad locked!
 

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
49,900
Goldstone
View attachment 62745

Picture (hopefully) attached.

A) Am I right to be confused / is it as it should be, legally?

B) Nope, you're a f*ckwit. Shut up and pay up.
No, you're not right to be confused, it's pretty clear. I don't know if there's anything else on your side? I got out of one once because I looked at the evidence online and the warden had accidentally reset the camera, so the date shown on the picture was wrong.

From a legal point of view, the confusing bit is what permit you need. It says you need a permit - what for, fishing? I have a parking permit. It's not for Zone E, but the sign doesn't say it has to be, it just says you have to have one, and I have. The letter 'E' on the sign doesn't have any words attached. I'd be interested if this has gone to court, and what the ruling has been.
 

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