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Nor have i but the whole scenario work much better if we assume this to be the case. We should also assume that she has had these children purely to get more benefits and that she doesn't want to work (even though she says she would like to work)

Very very different times.

My grandfather had the same career all his working life, that kind of job security is a rarity these days. Anyway, sleep beckons.

The benefits system is well and truly ****ed I would agree. But to fix it you need to offer a decent alternative. Maybe the changes in the employment system have some part to play in his phenomenon too.

I think we are in agreement on much of this although i disagree with your notion that parents/families are separate to society. The whole picture that people are growing up in are far too tangled to make distinct. Perhaps my definition of society it too broad but I think that the problems we...

I think it is too simplistic to blame one or the other. We are all products of many different influences our parents and wider community being very important ones. I would suggest that this is one of the main reasons for the limited success you experienced. You seem to suggest different and I...

They are either telling themselves what they need to to get themselves through or they are a product of a broken society. Either way I can't feel much other than pity for them. Like you said earlier work ethics and principles are hand down through generations, it is safe to assume other ethics...

Conditioning.

These people aren't winning, far from it. Not matter what they tell themselves and other people. What gets me though is why people believe it.

Quite right this. Overpopulation is a massive global problem that is so often ignored. I concede I am a massive hypocrite on this one but in my defence i didn't really think this through at the time (when the Australian money were giving people money to breed so we didn't have to let anyone else...

..... and overpaid for what they actually do for society. Perhaps we should try to match the kickbacks they get from their pals so they start to represent us instead of them.

Spot on.

Traditionally yes it is. Those convicts were hardly the cream of the crop. Although I don't really see how this is relevant.

This in spades. My guess is that if you investigated this further the story probably would be all it seemed anyway.