[Politics] Are Labour going to turn this country around?

Is it PotG? · Tuesday at 12:55 PM

portslade seagull said:
I would think Lucy Powell is now on a very sticky wicket after her damaging remarks

I doubt it, let’s remind ourselves what Sir Keir said in January.

When asked by journalists about the highly inconvenient return of the grooming gangs scandal to the public eye, Two Tier Keir claimed that his political opponents were “calling for inquiries because they want to jump on a bandwagon of the far Right”.

ROSM · Tuesday at 1:32 PM

Is it PotG? said:
I doubt it, let’s remind ourselves what Sir Keir said in January.

When asked by journalists about the highly inconvenient return of the grooming gangs scandal to the public eye, Two Tier Keir claimed that his political opponents were “calling for inquiries because they want to jump on a bandwagon of the far Right”.

The highly inconvenient and heavily plugged , publicised and amplified by whom? Would that be Elon musk who is perceived by most to be far right?

fly high · Tuesday at 1:49 PM

jcdenton08 said:
"We did protect it for the poorest pensioners, but there are a lot of people saying they disagree with it regardless".

Winter fuel cuts were factor at elections, says minister

Wes Streeting says many voters "aren't happy" with axing the payment for millions of pensioners.

www.bbc.co.uk

This is hugely confusing to me Ted, because according to posters here supporting the last minute WFA cut just before winter 2024, absolutely nobody they knew were affected.

It’s almost like some of the hardcore Labour supporters here were lying and trying to defend an incredibly unpopular decision, because “I’m alright Jack”.

Streeting perpetuates the Labour lie about protecting the poorest pensioners, they did not, if they had people would not be so angry. Most of people I know are not disadvantaged but that doesn't stop me from understanding there are hundreds of thousands who seriously are. Labour still seem to think it will all be forgotten about but the public have long memories. Labour are supposed to protect the most vulnerable and poor which they have completely failed to do.

Pavilionaire · Tuesday at 9:12 PM

Labour deserve some credit for concluding a trade deal with India today. I just hope that it doesn't compromise our ability to re-enter the Single Market / Customs Union should we wish to do so in the future.

Just to put that into context, according to the ONS, India is 2% of our imports and 2% of our exports. The EU is 47% of exports and 53% of imports. USA is 10% of imports, 16% of exports. Therefore, any growth in exports to India will be greatly outweighed by the drop in exports to USA caused by Trump's tariffs. And that's if we can get our stuff through the Suez Canal, which is currently a warzone.

Pavilionaire · Tuesday at 9:26 PM

fly high said:
Labour are supposed to protect the most vulnerable and poor which they have completely failed to do.

That's not actually true through. They've increased the minimum wage for 3 million low paid workers, they've preserved the triple lock for pensioners, increased spending on the NHS to its highest levels since 2010, ended many of the strikes, introduced an Employment Rights Bill to give better protection to workers, a Renter's Rights Bill to help tenants.

Yes, they made a mistakes with the Winter Fuel Allowance, and maybe with more creativity they could have done more. Winter Fuel Allowance changes was the right policy because it discriminates on age grounds, and wealthy pensioners were getting it when they didn't need it. However, it should only have been introduced later in the parliament once the economy had recovered sufficiently. Labour showed incredible political naivety, but I think the issue in terms of actual effect on pensioners has been blown out of all proportion.

Labour were handed a basket case economy, they do not have the resources to go further and now have to contend with Trump's tariffs and increased defence spending with Trump pulling the plug in Ukraine and NATO generally.

pocketseagull · Tuesday at 9:29 PM

You've missed cutting benefits for the disabled and choosing to keep children in poverty.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Tuesday at 9:35 PM

fly high said:
Streeting perpetuates the Labour lie about protecting the poorest pensioners, they did not, if they had people would not be so angry. Most of people I know are not disadvantaged but that doesn't stop me from understanding there are hundreds of thousands who seriously are. Labour still seem to think it will all be forgotten about but the public have long memories. Labour are supposed to protect the most vulnerable and poor which they have completely failed to do.

Angry people include Daily Mail* deadline writers and Farage.

No, I'm not seeing any 'labour lie'.

Whatabout Tory Taradiddles?
And Reform Rebarbaration?

As for the complete failure to protect the poor, see @Pavilionaire posts above.

*With apols, can't tell if you batting left or right. Happy to replace with Morning Star if it fits better :wink:

The Clamp · Tuesday at 9:36 PM

I heard in the radio someone claiming that if they taxes everyone who has £20m or more (assets, cash? Dunno) an extra 2% on their wealth, this would raise £21bn.

Is this feasible? Accurate? Possible?

Pavilionaire · Tuesday at 9:49 PM

pocketseagull said:
You've missed cutting benefits for the disabled and choosing to keep children in poverty.

Sorry I didn't give a full and complete list of all of the wins and losses. The point I was making is that it isn't actually a complete failure for the most vulnerable and poor, and it is simplistic to point to ignore the good stuff and focus just on the bad stuff.

Labour had to promise they wouldn't raise taxes just to be able to get into power, such is the fervour of the right wing press and the Tories about their fixation of Labour putting up taxes. Who could forget Rishi repeating his £2,000 Labour tax hike claim over and over in the first TV debate? This is an undated and childish view that has hamstrung the Chancellor, forcing her to then cut some benefits and hike crazy, marginal taxes like IHT Agricultural Property Relief for farmers.

Where I think Labour can be criticised is for their lack of imagination and bravery, in particular on tax reform and on Brexit reform. They don't have a clue about the mountain of red tap that taxpayers and businesses face just to comply, and things are going to get a whole lot worse later in this parliament as Making Tax Digital for Income Tax - which Labour inherited from the Tories and have embraced enthusiastically - is introduced from April 2026.

This will force small businesses and landlords to keep records digitally, just so they can make quarterly submissions of data that will not be used by government and is of no use to the taxpayers themselves. Penalties will be levied if these submissions are not made on time, thousands of tax practitioners are likely to leave the sector because the work is low value, high tech and time consuming.

I am an accountant and I did a webinar today on the Finance Act 2025 presented by one of the UK's leading tax experts Rebecca Benneyworth. She was answering delegate questions and even she didn't know the answers to various questions being asked and was actually wrong on a couple of occasions, so if she can't get it right what hope is there for the rest of us?

pocketseagull · Tuesday at 9:51 PM

Pavilionaire said:
Labour had to promise they wouldn't raise taxes just to be able to get into power

This is where we disagree. The tories were finished. Labour could've made the argument for fairer taxation and still won.

Pavilionaire · Tuesday at 10:00 PM

The Clamp said:
I heard in the radio someone claiming that if they taxes everyone who has £20m or more (assets, cash? Dunno) an extra 2% on their wealth, this would raise £21bn.

Is this feasible? Accurate? Possible?

These people are leaving the UK in their droves and taking their money with them. We are losing 30 millionaires a day, and it's no surprise given Labour's tax hikes on non-doms. Many are moving to Dubai or Singapore, some with EU business interests are going to Paris, Amsterdam or Monaco, others are retiring to warmer parts of the EU, or Australia.

Wealth inequality is a problem that is hard to tackle when there are so many tax havens to choose from, harder still when we've left the EU so cannot shape policy on this as part of a huge trade bloc. Some argue the EU's plans to clamp down on tax havens was one of the reasons that drove the move to Brexit 10 years ago.

The City is growing less influential globally by the day too as businesses listing see the USA as the place to list their companies.

Pavilionaire · Tuesday at 10:08 PM

pocketseagull said:
This is where we disagree. The tories were finished. Labour could've made the argument for fairer taxation and still won.

I take your point.

In a perfect world it would be nice if the media could be more objective about the reasons behind tax and spend, but we're just in a perpetual loop where the perception is Labour care more about people than money and the Tories care more about money than people.

Taxation was already at record levels, so it is still a hard sell. Moreover, the act of increasing taxes when getting into power would have given the Tories an instant issue to seize upon and start their rebuild.

loz · Tuesday at 10:23 PM

Pavilionaire said:
These people are leaving the UK in their droves and taking their money with them. We are losing 30 millionaires a day, and it's no surprise given Labour's tax hikes on non-doms. Many are moving to Dubai or Singapore, some with EU business interests are going to Paris, Amsterdam or Monaco, others are retiring to warmer parts of the EU, or Australia.

Wealth inequality is a problem that is hard to tackle when there are so many tax havens to choose from, harder still when we've left the EU so cannot shape policy on this as part of a huge trade bloc. Some argue the EU's plans to clamp down on tax havens was one of the reasons that drove the move to Brexit 10 years ago.

The City is growing less influential globally by the day too as businesses listing see the USA as the place to list their companies.

Good, let them go it might bring a levelling of wealth. ( they don’t pay taxes anyway)

Weststander · Tuesday at 10:49 PM

The Clamp said:
I heard in the radio someone claiming that if they taxes everyone who has £20m or more (assets, cash? Dunno) an extra 2% on their wealth, this would raise £21bn.

Is this feasible? Accurate? Possible?

Examined on R4 not so long ago (I wouldn’t be able to find a link now) and thankfully not by politicians. The guests said countries that implemented this didn’t get anything like the tax take they had anticipated.

Paul Johnson is highly respected.

Wealth tax would be almost impossible to implement, leading economist warns

‘No country in the world has ever successfully had a wealth tax’, IFS director Paul Johnson told The Independent

www.independent.co.uk

Weststander · Tuesday at 10:59 PM

loz said:
Good, let them go it might bring a levelling of wealth. ( they don’t pay taxes anyway)

Non doms based in the UK pay full taxes/NI on UK income and gains, with the option of either taxed only on overseas income/gains remitted to the UK plus pay a flat rate charge, or full UK taxes on worldwide income and gains.

Those taking option 1 paid the UK Exchequer £6b per annum.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Tuesday at 11:04 PM

pocketseagull said:
This is where we disagree. The tories were finished. Labour could've made the argument for fairer taxation and still won.

No they couldn't.
And it was vitally important they won.

Weststander · Tuesday at 11:11 PM

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
No they couldn't.
And it was vitally important they won.

…. and win a second term?

That old nsc chestnut of the Winter Fuel Payment has come back to bite, even Labour ministers are now accepting this. Reeves has time on her side to do something tangible and generally acceptable before next winter to end this distraction. Otherwise like Nick Clegg and student loans or the Poll Tax, it will really hurt Labour.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Tuesday at 11:16 PM

Weststander said:
…. and win a second term?

That old nsc chestnut of the Winter Fuel Payment has come back to bite, even Labour ministers are now accepting this. Reeves has time on her side to do something tangible and generally acceptable before next winter to end this distraction. Otherwise like Nick Clegg and student loans or the Poll Tax, it will really hurt Labour.

Yes, they have made life hard for themselves.

abc · 2025-05-07T06:22:33+0100

The Clamp said:
I heard in the radio someone claiming that if they taxes everyone who has £20m or more (assets, cash? Dunno) an extra 2% on their wealth, this would raise £21bn.

Is this feasible? Accurate? Possible?

I suspect feasibility is the issue. No how idea how this would work in practice but anyone with £20M in assets would be able to employ the best accountants to ensure they pay less than when the policy was introduced and/or they would move the assets or themselves to somewhere with a more benign tax regime

Kinky Gerbil · 2025-05-07T09:27:58+0100

Pavilionaire said:
Labour deserve some credit for concluding a trade deal with India today. I just hope that it doesn't compromise our ability to re-enter the Single Market / Customs Union should we wish to do so in the future.

Just to put that into context, according to the ONS, India is 2% of our imports and 2% of our exports. The EU is 47% of exports and 53% of imports. USA is 10% of imports, 16% of exports. Therefore, any growth in exports to India will be greatly outweighed by the drop in exports to USA caused by Trump's tariffs. And that's if we can get our stuff through the Suez Canal, which is currently a warzone.

Seems they have thrown a load of tax breaks at it as well, not sure how UK businesses will feel about it

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