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[Albion] Fab OUT



DJ NOBO

DJ NOBO

Well-known member
Jul 18, 2004
7,324
Wiltshire
Milano said:
Isn't it that the injuries seem to have hit the same positions at the same time? Vs Forest we only had one CM deemed fit enough to start. We currently only have one fit full back. As an example no way do CP score their 2nd goal so easily if Veltman is on the pitch instead of a CM doing a job. Now we have only one established CB available for Saturday. It's never ending.
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Yes - certain positions like right back have been disproportionatly affected.
But , putting to one side Fab’s tactical choices for Forest away, even in those season low points it meant playing an international player out of position (still alongside our best players) rather than having to raid the development squad. The quality of the first team squad, and the injury freeness of our best players, has meant Fab has had pretty decent options for all but parts of a handful of games. Of course other clubs have also had injury problems.
 




H

Han Solo

Well-known member
May 25, 2024
4,466
I'm struggling to see what was so exciting about our football last season that makes Fabians football seem "dull". Yes, ok, maybe if you ignore the league games and only think of Europe.

We're fun. Arguably a little bit too fun sometimes.
 


Garry Nelson's Left Foot

Garry Nelson's Left Foot

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
13,802
tokyo
DJ NOBO said:
It may well be.
But that system says if Joe Knight gets injured for 2 months it has more impact on the squad than if Mitoma was injured for a few days less.
I would say the loss of Mitoma even for a bit less time would be more of a loss, as he’s a world class player whereas Joe Knight is making his name.
It‘s just an anomaly this season that the players who many, at the start of the season, would have regarded as our most important haven’t got injured much at all.
So in the chat about Fab’s injury selection woes, surely that counts for something when assessing how well/badly he’s done.
In other words, yes there have been injuries. But fortunately not to those regarded at the start of the season as our most important players.
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I think we're generally pretty much on the same page. My only point is we've had a crap load of injuries and they are a mitigating factor to a certain degree. They can't be used as an excuse for any and all of our issues but they have played their part in the team not reaching it's full potential.

The suicidally aggressive defensive line we started the season with wasn't a player injury issue for instance. As another example the poorly thought through one man midfield/five forwards plan against Forest both was and wasn't an injury issue. It was FH's response to an injury issue but it wasn't the only option available to him. He made a poor tactical decision in an attempt to deal with a midfield injury crisis.

You're right to say it could have been worse - if Baleba and Mitoma had missed all season instead of say Milner and March(and thats no slight on either player) we would most likely be in the bottom half. But then if the alternative was no Baleba but Milner, Hinshelwood, Weiffer, O'Riley, Ayari, Gomez, Kadioglu were all fit and firing for the entirity of the season would the loss of Baleba be that bad? Who knows? It'd be terrible on top of the injuries we've had for sure but if everyone else was fit I reckon we'd be able to compensate fairly well.

If Forest had had the same number of individual injuries and missed days/games that we've had and we there's they'd be in the bottom five and we'd be several places higher up the league IMO.

So in summation: we have had a huge number of injuries, they have had a negative effect on our season but not to the point that it can be used as the excuse/explaination for every thing. It's one mitigating factor only.
 


DJ NOBO

DJ NOBO

Well-known member
Jul 18, 2004
7,324
Wiltshire
Garry Nelson's Left Foot said:
I think we're generally pretty much on the same page. My only point is we've had a crap load of injuries and they are a mitigating factor to a certain degree. They can't be used as an excuse for any and all of our issues but they have played their part in the team not reaching it's full potential.

The suicidally aggressive defensive line we started the season with wasn't a player injury issue for instance. As another example the poorly thought through one man midfield/five forwards plan against Forest both was and wasn't an injury issue. It was FH's response to an injury issue but it wasn't the only option available to him. He made a poor tactical decision in an attempt to deal with a midfield injury crisis.

You're right to say it could have been worse - if Baleba and Mitoma had missed all season instead of say Milner and March(and thats no slight on either player) we would most likely be in the bottom half. But then if the alternative was no Baleba but Milner, Hinshelwood, Weiffer, O'Riley, Ayari, Gomez, Kadioglu were all fit and firing for the entirity of the season would the loss of Baleba be that bad? Who knows? It'd be terrible on top of the injuries we've had for sure but if everyone else was fit I reckon we'd be able to compensate fairly well.

If Forest had had the same number of individual injuries and missed days/games that we've had and we there's they'd be in the bottom five and we'd be several places higher up the league IMO.

So in summation: we have had a huge number of injuries, they have had a negative effect on our season but not to the point that it can be used as the excuse/explaination for every thing. It's one mitigating factor only.
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I am not for a moment saying that’s not the case. We have had some crazy bad injury luck in some senses. But we have also had some crazy good luck in others.
On balance I’d say we are in the mix with other clubs when it comes to injury luck. Nothing exceptional. Not like Liverpool for example, who have led a particularly charmed life.
Oh, and to answer your Baleba question. I’d take a fit Baleba, only because I think he and Mitoma are a cut above. I take your point though.
 








G

Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
32,115
Uffern
Garry Nelson's Left Foot said:
As another example the poorly thought through one man midfield/five forwards plan against Forest both was and wasn't an injury issue. It was FH's response to an injury issue but it wasn't the only option available to him. He made a poor tactical decision in an attempt to deal with a midfield injury crisis.
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I think he was particularly unlucky in that game, precisely because he didn't have any options. What do you think were the other options available to him? As far as I can see, he played the one man midfield because he had no choice. Gomez, by his own admission wasn't fit enough to play more than half a game, JPVH had been tried there last season and was a failure, picking O'Riley would have swapped one 10 for another and it would have been a bold move to put one of the kids there. What other options did he have?
 


chaileyjem

chaileyjem

#BarberIn
NSC Patron
Jun 27, 2012
15,372
DJ NOBO said:
On balance I’d say we are in the mix with other clubs when it comes to injury luck. Nothing exceptional.
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?? Isn't our injury record this season the very definition of exceptional ?

via https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6143322/2025/03/20/brighton-injuries/

brighton.jpg
 

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DJ NOBO

DJ NOBO

Well-known member
Jul 18, 2004
7,324
Wiltshire




Bold Seagull

Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
30,943
Hove
You wouldn’t believe we were heading toward our 2nd highest top flight points total.

Shows what the Premier League does to people. Completely losing all sense of perspective, reality, common sense.

TB undoubtedly sets aspirational targets but he must be absolutely delighted with how his young manager has progressed.
 




Garry Nelson's Left Foot

Garry Nelson's Left Foot

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
13,802
tokyo
Gwylan said:
I think he was particularly unlucky in that game, precisely because he didn't have any options. What do you think were the other options available to him? As far as I can see, he played the one man midfield because he had no choice. Gomez, by his own admission wasn't fit enough to play more than half a game, JPVH had been tried there last season and was a failure, picking O'Riley would have swapped one 10 for another and it would have been a bold move to put one of the kids there. What other options did he have?
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Yeah, he was dealt a poor hand for that game but he played it really badly. Not just by having a starting formation and tactic that played perfectly into Forests hands but by doubling down on it. We were getting caught wide open on the break at 4-0 down with ten minutes to go. It was naive at best.

What would I have done? Probably have parked the bus and told the players that sometimes you've just got to grind out a result. Would it have worked? I don't know but it wouldn't have played into Forests hands and would have forced them into doing something they're not built to do.

Sometimes you're given a hand you can't win with. You probably shouldn't go all in on it.
 


albionalba

albionalba

Football with optimism
NSC Patron
Aug 31, 2023
416
Not where I want
Thought this was interesting (already in the Brighton in the News thread) and apols if discussed elsewhere

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cn5x73x376eo

Includes the comment:

"On Saturday, Brighton were 2-1 down against Crystal Palace and chasing an equaliser. It all got a bit chaotic towards the end of the game as three red cards were shown – two to Palace and one to Brighton.

Yet for the majority of the second half, and despite having spent more than half of the opening 45 minutes outside of his technical area altogether, Seagulls boss Fabian Hurzeler sat in the dugout, when he might have been expected to be driving on his team from the edge of the technical area.

"There's a concept in psychology called emotional labour," said Dr Cook. "It originally comes from the airline industry of service with a smile - it doesn't matter what you feel, you've got to act in a certain way because that's what you think is expected of you.

"If you're a football manager there is data suggesting that if you look calm, composed and in control, that will transmit and convey to the players. So the more calm you look, the more calm your players will be, and they'll then have the headspace to go out and execute whatever your gameplan is."

There is also a chart comparing Nuno and Fab in this regard.

Dr Cook doesn't go on to explain why the calm approach didn't work......
 


Johnny Byrne superstar

Johnny Byrne superstar

Active member
Oct 25, 2005
528
Hangleton
albionalba said:
Thought this was interesting (already in the Brighton in the News thread) and apols if discussed elsewhere

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cn5x73x376eo

Includes the comment:

"On Saturday, Brighton were 2-1 down against Crystal Palace and chasing an equaliser. It all got a bit chaotic towards the end of the game as three red cards were shown – two to Palace and one to Brighton.

Yet for the majority of the second half, and despite having spent more than half of the opening 45 minutes outside of his technical area altogether, Seagulls boss Fabian Hurzeler sat in the dugout, when he might have been expected to be driving on his team from the edge of the technical area.

"There's a concept in psychology called emotional labour," said Dr Cook. "It originally comes from the airline industry of service with a smile - it doesn't matter what you feel, you've got to act in a certain way because that's what you think is expected of you.

"If you're a football manager there is data suggesting that if you look calm, composed and in control, that will transmit and convey to the players. So the more calm you look, the more calm your players will be, and they'll then have the headspace to go out and execute whatever your gameplan is."

There is also a chart comparing Nuno and Fab in this regard.

Dr Cook doesn't go on to explain why the calm approach didn't work......
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It is an interesting piece... I prefer a manager to be involved rather than being passive or looking to staff to pass on instructions. Not to the levels of Arteta though... I wasn't surprised to see his touchline stats being high!
 




G

Greg Bobkin

Silver Seagull
May 22, 2012
17,538
Bold Seagull said:
You wouldn’t believe we were heading toward our 2nd highest top flight points total.

Shows what the Premier League does to people. Completely losing all sense of perspective, reality, common sense.

TB undoubtedly sets aspirational targets but he must be absolutely delighted with how his young manager has progressed.
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This is why I'm increasingly trying to tune out all the negatively and knee-jerk reactions on here (and elsewhere) that come after a match. There will probably be ups and downs over the course of the next seven games (it's the hope that kills you) but, when all said and done, the season will be forgotten and it's onto the next one. Probably another one that will be filled with hope and despair in equal measure.

Me? I just take it one game at a time. And also remember that whatever happens is COMPLETELY out of my control so what's the point in getting annoyed/stressed/apoplectic with rage about it?
 




JetsetJimbo

JetsetJimbo

Well-known member
Jun 13, 2011
1,296
Han Solo said:
I'm struggling to see what was so exciting about our football last season that makes Fabians football seem "dull". Yes, ok, maybe if you ignore the league games and only think of Europe.

We're fun. Arguably a little bit too fun sometimes.
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I did say "under RDZ" rather than "last season" (not sure this is aimed at me, but it seems it might be). Go and find a clip of Enciso's goal against Man City. Not the short clips that just show his finish, but the longer one that shows the build-up passing where it goes from Steele out to the right wing and back to Steele again and then to Colwill, while the City players tried and failed to dispossess ours.

We don't play like that anymore and I miss it.

Now, you might argue that that brand of football was on its way to being "found out". Man City's relative struggles this season would seem to bear that out. But it was (admittedly subjectively) more enjoyable to watch.
 


L

Littlemo

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2022
2,002
Han Solo said:
I'm struggling to see what was so exciting about our football last season that makes Fabians football seem "dull". Yes, ok, maybe if you ignore the league games and only think of Europe.

We're fun. Arguably a little bit too fun sometimes.
Click to expand...

Why do people only talk about the last 6 months of RDZ when we had massive injuries, fatigue from playing in Europe and a stroppy manager, and ignore the amazing season and a half before that? The excitement of Europe for the first time?

I’m on the same page as Jetset Jimbo. The football under Fab is dull, it really isn’t that much fun to watch.

I’ll qualify that by saying that obviously Fab is a young manager and we have young players and so all of this may change with familiarity and experience but my fear is just that it’s his style of football.

Also results have been ok in the main, good and bad and we have a decent points total and place in the league. Sometimes it’s not just about the point on the board though, we all want to watch exciting football in the end.
 




H

Han Solo

Well-known member
May 25, 2024
4,466
JetsetJimbo said:
I did say "under RDZ" rather than "last season" (not sure this is aimed at me, but it seems it might be). Go and find a clip of Enciso's goal against Man City. Not the short clips that just show his finish, but the longer one that shows the build-up passing where it goes from Steele out to the right wing and back to Steele again and then to Colwill, while the City players tried and failed to dispossess ours.

We don't play like that anymore and I miss it.

Now, you might argue that that brand of football was on its way to being "found out". Man City's relative struggles this season would seem to bear that out. But it was (admittedly subjectively) more enjoyable to watch.
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I agree and disagree.

Like you seem to do, I prefer the über-controlling short pass football a la Potter/De Zerbi compared to the "lets chaos" style from Hurzeler, though I think the latter suits us better at the moment.

But the iteration of dominant short passing football we played last season bored me to death. It was tactically disciplined and structured to the point where improvisation and individual expression was pretty much drowned out.

Marseille scored a nice goal a few weeks ago. After the game, the player assisting the goal with some nice dribbles said what he did wasn't really allowed because "Roberto wants you to think of not losing possession every time the ball". This fear was obvious in our team last season.

For me, the best part of the short passing goal is some unexpected move or combination during a slick, controlled passing phase.

Last season?
I knew what 90% of our attacks would look like. Not just the style of it, but exactly what we were going to do.

Our two CBs and two defensive midfielders would pass the ball to each other. The opponent team would be baited into pressuring, and depending on where they'd leave a hole behind them, we would put the ball there for a winger or striker. If the opponent was disciplined enough, the ball would go nowhere... meaning a lot of games, the ball was just stuck with our centre backs.

I wouldn't mind going back more controlling football in the future but in that case I want something more Ajax/Barca and something less Milan/Juventus than with RDZ. Its all subjective but I genuinely can't see the excitement of "lets do the exact same moves in every single game and scenario".

Playing like we did last season isn't much different than Roy Hodgson spending months in Malmö training a pattern where the goalie would hoof to the right winger who'd head it to the striker. "System football" is fun when you win a lot. The charm quickly goes away if not. "We will do exactly the same thing next week" becomes a lot less sexy when losing.
 


JetsetJimbo

JetsetJimbo

Well-known member
Jun 13, 2011
1,296
Littlemo said:
Why do people only talk about the last 6 months of RDZ when we had massive injuries, fatigue from playing in Europe and a stroppy manager, and ignore the amazing season and a half before that? The excitement of Europe for the first time?

I’m on the same page as Jetset Jimbo. The football under Fab is dull, it really isn’t that much fun to watch.

I’ll qualify that by saying that obviously Fab is a young manager and we have young players and so all of this may change with familiarity and experience but my fear is just that it’s his style of football.

Also results have been ok in the main, good and bad and we have a decent points total and place in the league. Sometimes it’s not just about the point on the board though, we all want to watch exciting football in the end.
Click to expand...

And to be fair to FH and contradict myself (but only a little bit), it took time for Potter's desired style of play to really bed in, and once it did, we looked really good. Then RDZ inherited a team that was used to playing a style that was close to what he wanted.

So you could argue that RDZ had it relatively easy compared with GP and FH, in that he had less work to do to implement his preferred style.

Maybe next season we'll be playing full-throated Huerzelerball, crushing all before us, and this whole conversation will look rather silly. I hope so. Right now I'm just not seeing it but I really, really want to be proven wrong.
 


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