Tom Hark Preston Park
Will Post For Cash
- Jul 6, 2003
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I'm sure that makes sense - to you
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[News] Gideon Falter
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You clearly need a history lesson. The Jews in 1930s Germany were singled out by a racist party and a predominantly anti semitic society. This led to the deaths of millions from all over Europe in the extermination camps. However, it started with what on the face of it might have been considered 'minor' acts such as demonstrations where people openly called Jews 'scum' and shouted threatening abuse at them. This was ignored by the Police and politicians whilst Jewish people became increasingly frightened and limited to where they felt safe in their own cities and towns. The attempts by Jewish people or their representatives to appeal to the authorities or the goodness in ordinary people were ignored or treated with disdain. Gradually the 'minor' acts became more brutish culminating in Kristallnacht when Jewish businesses, shops and homes were attacked and ruined. Some Jews were killed. By this stage Jews had become 'third class citizens' and they gradually lost all their rights. They eventually, quite literally, became slaves prior to being gassed or shot en masse.
The Jewish people in London (and elsewhere) are not, of course and thankfully, 'treated as slaves and third class citizens in England' without rights etc. However, the level of anti semitism being expressed now is not dissimilar to that seen in early 1930s Germany and look where that ended up (see above).
Anti semitism is racism pre and simple. Apartheid in the 1950s US was racism pure and simple. There are no grey areas here. Rosa Park stood up against racism as are Jewish leaders today. One of Rosa Parks most famous quotes "Differences of race, nationality or religion should not be used to deny any human being citizenship rights or privileges" is as relevant in London today as it was in the US in the post war years and it applies to all people whether black or white, Muslim, Christian or Jew and to Palestinian, Israeli or British citizens.
Your statement "Not forgetting that some of the most powerful and rich people in this country and the states are Jewish" is right out of the Nazi playbook and whether you meant it to or not comes across as shockingly racist and antisemitic.
This is fair enough. I agree with most of what you say here apart from the level of anti semitism being anywhere close to the levels seen in nazi Germany at any point or the treatment of Jewish people in this country being anywhere close to that of black people in the US in the 50s.
I apologise if the comment about powerful Jews was insensitive, which is probably was. But it's a statement of fact and again was a comparison to black people in 1950s America who had no power, wealth or voice, my comparison was merely Vs that.
Parks and falter shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence, that to me was laughable, but hey, maybe I'm wrong, I just have an opinion.
aolstudios
Well-known member
aolstudios
Well-known member
Yes.
You're wrong
I'm not one to stand up for the police - especially the MET - but in this case they were on to a loser regardless of their actions. They stop a bloke from putting himself, and possibly others, in dangerous and it's antisemitic. If they'd let him continue on his journey and he'd come to harm then they would have been blamed for not protecting him - and any ensuing trouble from his presence. The use of language was ill judged.
Let's return to the football idea. When Palace are next down let's just let them wander around the city. After all it's the right of every civilian to walk the 'King's highway' is it not ? Even better, let's stop the constant moaning on here about away fans in the home stands - maybe we can all be mature adults instead and accept somebody else might be there to support the other team ?
The Jewish bloke in question did what he did on purpose to create either a reaction from the MET or from the protestors. Can't say I have any more sympathy for him than I do the idiots that swear and gesture at away football fans. EVERYONE JUST NEEDS TO GROW UP !
Yeah, I revised my opinion after further information came to light. Perhaps I should delete the post to which you reply.
Edit: my current view is post 109. Similar to yours I believe.
aolstudios
Well-known member
Wow.
Should Rosa Parks have 'just grown up'?
Or is it that Jews don't count?
Again
Should Rosa Parks have 'just grown up'?
Or is it that Jews don't count?
Again
I'm not sure how we got to here. If someone is equating Mr Falter with Rosa Parks I'd be surprised, and would be inclined to criticize them for their assessment. Being a representative of an identifiable population who face discrimination is not grounds for claiming equivalence between Falter and Parks. What more can I say?
Where has anyone said "Jews don't count" ? I'd condemn Abu Hamza equally if he were to 'happen' to turn up at a Jewish protest. There are protests because the Israeli government and the IDF are murdering thousands of innocent people - and if not murdering them starving them to death. The idea that a prominent Jewish activist just 'happened' to be in the area and waltzing home rather than to provoke a response either from the police or from the protesters is about as believable as those that claim Trump is innocent. Quite what Rosa Parks has to do with the situation is beyond me. The Jewish community community in London ( or indeed anywhere in Europe ) aren't persecuted anywhere need as badly as the blacks were when Rosa Parks was active. I'll give you Jews had it worse in the 1930s and 1940s but not now.
pb21
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- Apr 23, 2010
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Is it not the case that he was treated in exactly the same manner (arguably better) as anyone in a similar situation would be?
aolstudios
Well-known member
Anyone visibly Jewish in a similar situation
aolstudios
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I was actually arguing with posters' criticisms of his actions & motivations.
It seems from posts on this thread they're acceptable for other minorities but not Jews
The Rosa Parks parallels are deeply unhelpful in this instance, not least because my experience of London on protest days is that it is virtually impossible to get a frigging bus anyway 
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
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we got here because some insist on equating restricted rights enforced by law, with someone trying to cross a road during a demonstration. there isn't anything more to say because it will be manipulated and twisted. we're all either 100% supportive or anti-semitic to some, it's all frankly pathetic.
Care to give some examples of "other minorities" carrying out the same actions ?
Seeing as anti Semitic 'attacks' are up 500%in the last year that is a pretty dangerous question !!
Just spotted this as your original point. I stand by the repost I made to a later exchange.
Parks' actions were taken because she and her ethnic contemporaries were excluded by America law from much of American life (no right to vote, for example) and indeed no right to sit on a seat reserved for white people on a bus.
What right, denied to him by the state because he is a Jew, was Falter protesting about?
I haven't read of anyone suggesting that if others don't support Falter 100% they are anti-Semitic. If anyone said it they must be someone I have on ignore.
Instead, people have quite gently, in the main, tried to unravel what has happened. My view changed once I read the full facts.
The conversation has been interesting and far from pathetic
- Apr 19, 2018
- 1,874
I don't know enough about anything that happened to comment on it specifically, but reading this thread has made me recognise my own privilege. About a month ago Mrs Exile and I were redirected away by the police in London from a pro-Palestine presentation and told an alternative route to go to our destination - we were heading to the Strand and directed by police not far from Westminster Cathedral to walk via Buckingham Palace and the Mall rather than past the Cenotaph. At no point did it occur to me that this was for anything other than my own convenience and possibly safety, I didn't feel impinged upon or like my rights were being threatened or taken away, it was just a minor inconvenience I'd pretty much forgotten about until reading this thread today. That feels like the textbook privilege of being a white, middle class, middle-aged, Christian-heritage man that it didn't even occur to me that others might have grounds to conceive that same experience in an entirely different way. Truly eye opening, and I'm grateful I clicked to open this discussion.
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