portlock seagull
Why? Why us?
- Jul 28, 2003
- 17,163
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[Football] Safe standing in the North stand next season ....?
- Thread starter JonnyComeEarly
- Start date
Baldseagull
Well-known member
My only experience of safe standing was away at Chelsea, I loved it.
The steepness of it meant when I got tired of standing, I could sit and see over the top of the blokes in front of me who were still standing. Introducing safe standing in the North Stand could possibly result in more people actually sitting.
I would suggest the major reason PBOBE is not keen, is the return on investment not being quick enough, if there is one at all.
The steepness of it meant when I got tired of standing, I could sit and see over the top of the blokes in front of me who were still standing. Introducing safe standing in the North Stand could possibly result in more people actually sitting.
I would suggest the major reason PBOBE is not keen, is the return on investment not being quick enough, if there is one at all.
Ike and Tina Burner
Well-known member
- Mar 22, 2019
- 436
Spurs, Chelsea, Wembley and probably every team with safe standing still have seats in the designated area
Is it PotG?
Thrifty non-licker
Can we have a 'safe singing' area in the Norff?
You know, you can sing your own song at your own speed.....oh hold on.
You know, you can sing your own song at your own speed.....oh hold on.
GT49er
Well-known member
If the ratio is three standing places for two seats, then the argument that there's nothing in it (financially) for the club looks a bit bollocksy.
GT49er
Well-known member
Exactly - and no reason to lock them. No reason punters can't have a rest at half time, or before the match starts - where's the problem that some people seem to think exists (although they have put forward no cogent case for one)?
PascalGroß Tips
Well-known member
- Jan 29, 2024
- 253
Exactly … I’ve given up waiting for someone to put forward that case.
drew
Drew
There's the installation costs, changing the safety certs etc and also, do you charge people to stand the same price as to sit? If you charge the same, then it does look a no brainer (notwithstanding getting the safety cert changed) but I'm guessing those standing will be looking for a cheaper price.
GT49er
Well-known member
Why? Safe standing is what they want; they stand now, but would probably appreciate a rail to lean on! What we do know, is that they don't want (quite rightly) to be forced to pay extra to stand.
drew
Drew
They stand now and, as far as I'm aware, there haven't been any reported injuries! I'd like a cup holder or a USB port at my seat but not sure the club will go with that.
GT49er
Well-known member
We drove cars without seat belts for years, and most of us survived. That wasn't a reason for not improving safety by introducing seat belts.
Safe standing is, would, without any reservations, be safer than standing behind a shin high 'barrier' if you get accidentally get pushed or stumble forward. OK, nobody's been killed or maimed ......................... YET. As far as I know anyway, but that's not a valid argument for not introducing it.
PBOBE has made it pretty clear he doesn't like fans standing, anywhere, any time, period. He just can't stop the North Stand standing, but you can bet your season ticket he would if he could - and as for condoning it by putting in safe standing? - he'd rather allow bottle tops and flasks, and that ain't happening anytime soon! TBH, I think he'd probably rather have his teeth extracted one by one without anaesthetic than have people standing up in his nice all-seater stadium!
kevo
Well-known member
- Mar 8, 2008
- 9,108
Same here. It seems obvious PB doesn't want it.
I'll pick this one of you're many posts in this thread. Exactly what benefit to the club is there in ripping out perfectly good seats and replacing them with safe standing ? The club will need to 'invest' several hundred thousand pounds and IIRC PBOBE in the past has suggested that safe standing takes more seats than normal seats to there would be less ticket income. Unlike many other clubs putting it in we are already at full capacity most matches to why just throw away money for no return ?Spending money on rails for safe standing = we'll never qualify for European football ? How interesting ...
PascalGroß Tips
Well-known member
- Jan 29, 2024
- 253
See my earlier post above. You don’t need to rip the existing seats out. You can add rails to existing seating.
And capacity certainly wouldn’t be reduced. Where is your evidence to say that would be the case. We are an outlier in the Premier League ( see one of my other ‘many’ posts with current status of all PL and other clubs). If I was a betting man - I’m not - I’d bet on us changing direction on this and introducing them at some point.
schmunk
"Members"
Tickets in the North stand are already at a cheaper price than the rest of the ground.
drew
Drew
But let's say the back 6 rows of the North were safe standing rail seats and tickets were sold on the basis that you have to stand (ie they sold 3 tickets for every two seats with the seats locked in the up position), would those in that area be happy paying the same as those in the front 20 rows (who'll probably stand anyway)? Another way to look at it is if those that do sit have to pay a little extra to cover the cost of installation of rail seats for others.Tickets in the North stand are already at a cheaper price than the rest of the ground.
I'm not against safe standing in the North Stand but I don't see why they need to change a system that currently works. I also don't think people that have had a season ticket for the time we have been at the Amex should be forced to move. That lot up the road did that to accommodate their 'ultras' and were roundly criticised on here.
PascalGroß Tips
Well-known member
- Jan 29, 2024
- 253
This will be my last comment as I've already posted too many it seems.
The screenshots below are from an article on Sky Sports website. It will hopefully help to clarify some of the misconceptions re 'safe' standing. But to answer some of your specific points:
1. You won't be made to stand. Clubs are introducing these in areas where people already stand.
2. They won't be sold on the basis of 3 tickets for every 2 seats. The exact same allocated seats will be available. They will just have a rail in front of them.
3. Seats will not be locked in the up position.
4. Ticket prices will be same as you still have the same seat you had before the rail was put in place.
5. People that currently stand (in the North Stand for example) already pay the same as those that also sit in the same stand - they just choose to stand in front of their seat.
6. The 'need to change' is to make it safer for those that do stand (when currently they shouldn't be standing but it is 'tolerated').
Screenshots above confirms allocated space (numbered ticket) behind a barrier/rail in areas of persistent standing. Seats cannot be locked in any position.
Screenshot above highlights the safety issue of toppling over the person in front. Some on here have suggested this has never happened. Well it has for me - twice. On one of those I did crash my shin into the seat in front and had blood running down my leg resulting in a lovely scab. It bloody well hurt.
This type of rail seating doesn't have to be for the whole of a stand. There are plenty of examples where just sections of a stand has the safety rail. Those areas where everyone stands anyway. Just because some might not think they need the rail in front of them, there will be plenty that would appreciate it. It could be introduced in a small controlled way in the North Stand but also part of the South Stand for away supporters. Spurs have plenty of safe standing for away fans but also have a designated area for away fans that want to sit, which is a great idea IMO.
Anyway, that's more than enough from me on the subject ...
drew
Drew
That's now. I suppose the question is are the seats installed at some premier league grounds lockable? If so, why install lockable seats if the intention isn't, at some stage in the future, to use them. It may well be that clubs are anticipating a change in the law to allow standing .
GT49er
Well-known member
Can you give just one possible reason why any club would want to go to the expense of locking the seats - what possible benefit is there? None!
PascalGroß Tips
Well-known member
- Jan 29, 2024
- 253
To answer your specific question ...
Not as far as I'm aware. The rules/criteria are led by the Sports Grounds Safety Authority and clubs have to abide by strict criteria. It's not the clubs deciding how they want to use them.
As mentioned in one of the above screenshots, this includes the fact that seats cannot be locked in the up or down position. So the seats are as they are now.