Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊

[Politics] Donald Trump 2024



Crawley Dingo

Political thread tourist.
Mar 31, 2022
596
You are in a cult. Classified documents were found in several insecure locations at his Florida Hotel. He lied about having them, claimed he'd given them all back when he hadn't, and moved boxes of them to different locations when advised of an authorised search the following day.

Nope you are in a cult. He asked the NARA for more time to sort them out from his other stuff. He didn't do it post haste because others hadn't been prosecuted and he didn't realise their was an organised campaign to get him. Using the espionage act is over reach which gives the game away.
 




BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
17,127
I have to say, the insightful and evidence based arguments offered by the Trump fanboys on here is really compelling.

It appears it is an election stealing Democrat conspiracy to silence a good old (not as old as Biden) American hero. Oh and the media, they are in on it too . . . And the courts, the law, the education system (probably) and all the wokies who think that sexual assault and grabbing women by the pussy is anything more than locker room banter.

Yep I am firmly convinced that Trump is the best man for the presidency.
 


Crawley Dingo

Political thread tourist.
Mar 31, 2022
596
I know you are taking the piss but come on, a secure room?

The ego room:
View attachment 174190

The shitter:
View attachment 174191

Guests to his residence have gone on record to say these files were accessible and that he passed them round at parties to show off.

He is being prosecuted over 60 pages which is less than a school text book. Your pictures prove the point it would have taken time to sift through all those boxes to find them, Seems at least 80 boxes there.
 




BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
17,127
He is being prosecuted over 60 pages which is less than a school text book. Your pictures prove the point it would have taken time to sift through all those boxes to find them, Seems at least 80 boxes there.
That's right, 60 pages! Doesn't even matter if it's less than 100 pages. There are loads of classified boxes there which makes the 60 pages harder to find. It's a smart bit of hiding from a guy smarter than all the other smart people.

It's a woke Democrat which hunt is all it is.
 




nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
17,611
Gods country fortnightly
I have to say, the insightful and evidence based arguments offered by the Trump fanboys on here is really compelling.

It appears it is an election stealing Democrat conspiracy to silence a good old (not as old as Biden) American hero. Oh and the media, they are in on it too . . . And the courts, the law, the education system (probably) and all the wokies who think that sexual assault and grabbing women by the pussy is anything more than locker room banter.

Yep I am firmly convinced that Trump is the best man for the presidency.
It really is a waste of time trying to debate with these people, they’re gone, they have the football scarf on and they’re not taking it off.
 


BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
17,127
It really is a waste of time trying to debate with these people, they’re gone, they have the football scarf on and they’re not taking it off.
Yeah but you are looking at all the evidence and taking a balanced view.

If you just believe every excuse Donald makes and turn a blind eye to the evidence (grrr democrats, main stream media grr) you'll see that he is a bloody American hero.
 


Crawley Dingo

Political thread tourist.
Mar 31, 2022
596
It really is a waste of time trying to debate with these people, they’re gone, they have the football scarf on and they’re not taking it off.

You are aware I am admitting he is guilty of a crime here just not the espionage act? Being hyper partisan is believing the Muller enquiry, That valuing your own property is an act of fraud even though the loans been repaid and thats not how loans work.

Keep reaching.
 




Curious Orange

Punxsatawney Phil
Jul 5, 2003
9,962
On NSC for over two decades...
He is being prosecuted over 60 pages which is less than a school text book. Your pictures prove the point it would have taken time to sift through all those boxes to find them, Seems at least 80 boxes there.
I wonder why he hadn't given the ones they found in his office, including in his desk drawer, back?
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
50,204
Faversham
Nope you are in a cult. He asked the NARA for more time to sort them out from his other stuff. He didn't do it post haste because others hadn't been prosecuted and he didn't realise their was an organised campaign to get him. Using the espionage act is over reach which gives the game away.
Your subject, the superfluous 'in', and a bit of your spelling are almost correct.
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
50,204
Faversham
I have to say, the insightful and evidence based arguments offered by the Trump fanboys on here is really compelling.

It appears it is an election stealing Democrat conspiracy to silence a good old (not as old as Biden) American hero. Oh and the media, they are in on it too . . . And the courts, the law, the education system (probably) and all the wokies who think that sexual assault and grabbing women by the pussy is anything more than locker room banter.

Yep I am firmly convinced that Trump is the best man for the presidency.
The Crawly drongo is doing a bad job of defending Trump. However, there is something compelling about @lasvegan's (presumed) narrative that when you wash off the greasepaint, there is very little of substance between Biden and the orange bungle****. If you can tolerate some buffoonery, some lies, some hubris, and just focus on your income, then why not vote Trump?

I am not saying I accept the argument (and I am probably someone who can tolerate a loss of excitement and a lack of a big fat erection of Making Britain Great - other nations are available - so I'm not in need of a jingo hit) but the distance between sleepy Joe and the bungle**** may not be so extreme as we on the UK left may feel. I mean, I feel it, but I dislike all carpetbaggers, liars, bullies and molesters. But if the pound in your pocket is your bottom line (other currencies are available) you may be able to vote for whatever Twat is promising the marginally better deal for you and your interests without holding your nose.

I loathe Trump far more than I worry about sleepy Joe, but who am I to insist that my values are better than those of, for example, a redneck?
 
Last edited:








Zeberdi

Brighton born & bred
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
4,880
You are aware I am admitting he is guilty of a crime here just not the espionage act? Being hyper partisan is believing the Muller enquiry, That valuing your own property is an act of fraud even though the loans been repaid and thats not how loans work.

Keep reaching.
No one is accusing Trump of being a spy - in that sense, the Espionage Act would seem the wrong Act to apply but multiple people have been found guilty of retaining national security information under the Act with no intention of harming the US with it.


The Espionage Act relates to specifically to material of national security value and dosen’t require such papers to be declassified or classified - nor does it require the prosecutors to prove any knowledge on Trump’s part that papers relating to national security could do harm to the US if not properly secure, only that a reasonable person would think so. One does not have to show intention to use such information against the US either. Simply not handling them in a secure way or withholding them over time from the FBI and defence community who repeatedly asked them back, can be a breach of the Act and this is exactly what he has been charged with:

18 U.S.C. §§ 793, (d) makes it a crime to remove, copy or share national defense information, or to “willfully [retain]” national defense information and “[fail] to deliver it to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it”—

As I said in my post above about this:

It doesn’t matter whether Trump thinks he declassified the documents or not or whether he realised their importance, just that he had ample opportunity to return papers relating to national security matters when asked and refused to do so …


 




Klaas

I've changed this
Nov 1, 2017
2,567
The Crawly drongo is doing a bad job of defending Trump. However, there is something compelling about @lasvegan's (presumed) narrative that when you wash off the greasepaint, there is very little of substance between Biden and the orange bungle****. If you can tolerate some buffoonery, some lies, some hubris, and just focus on your income, then why not vote Trump?

I am not saying I accept the argument (and I am probably someone who can tolerate a loss of excitement and a lack of a big fat erection of Making Britain Great - other nations are available - so I'm not in need of a jingo hit) but the distance between sleepy Joe and the bungle**** may not be so extreme as we on the UK left may feel. I mean, I feel it, but I dislike all carpetbaggers, liars, bullies and molesters. But if the pound in your pocket is your bottom line (other currencies are available) you may be able to vote for whatever Twat is promising the marginally better deal for you and your interests without holding your nose.

I loathe Trump far more than I worry about sleepy Joe, but who am I to insist that my values are better than those of, for example, a redneck?
It has some merit, but then you remember Trump claims he won the last election and incited an insurrection. The MAGA lot are basically a crazed cult, but anyone who says 'They're all the same' while voting for him is part of the problem too.
 


Brovion

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 6, 2003
19,380
I believe Trump was instrumental in the gathering and reckless in his rhetoric and that could be construed as a generous interpretation of events. Not important whether they had guns or not. They fought their way into the building and who knows what would have happened if they found Pence or Pelosi. Guessing you're in the camp that it was all CGI and they were just tourists.
Weren't they all Antifa? That was the first story, the rioters were all Antifa and other pinko liberals under 'false flags' trying to give honest-to-goodness Trump supporters a bad name - as if Trumpers would ever do something as unAmerican as attempt to overturn an election result. However all the prosecutions were of Trump supporters, which either means all the Anitifa were incredibly intelligent and managed to get Trump patsys arrested for their crimes - or there weren't any and Trump supporters really DID want to overturn the result.
 




Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
50,204
Faversham
It has some merit, but then you remember Trump claims he won the last election and incited an insurrection. The MAGA lot are basically a crazed cult, but anyone who says 'They're all the same' while voting for him is part of the problem too.
Yes. I suppose I was trying to express how it is possible that ostensibly sensible people in the US can vote for Trump.

The MAGA cult is indeed crazed, but I wasn't thinking about them. We have crazed loons who support our two main parties (albeit whereas the crazed tory loons would back a pig in a blue rosette, the labour loons seem more interested in going on protest marches, opposing their own party and enacting "no compromise with the electorate" initiatives). I was thinking more about tens of millions of 'silent majority' Americans who just shrug their shoulders at Trump's antics and vote for him without liking him. Much the same way a lot of people (perhaps the majority) decide how to vote in the UK.

I think we need to disentangle gun totin' MAGA loons from rank and file American voters. In much the same way we need to disentangle 'anti-woke coalition' tory gammon from rank and file members of the public who generally favour conservatism. 'We' (of the self-styled centre left) will never win the hearts and minds of the persuadable by tarring the persuadable with the same brush as we tar the lunatics.

And I say that as someone with a long history of badmouthing conservatives. Am I still on a learning curve? It would be pleasing if so :lolol:

As for the 'there all the same' contingent, I feel this is often a mantra invoked by right wing lunatics when they have lost an argument, rather than an expression of middle ground apathy. This is also probably the reason why we are hearing the mantra so often these last few years. ???
 




Crawley Dingo

Political thread tourist.
Mar 31, 2022
596
No one is accusing Trump of being a spy - in that sense, the Espionage Act would seem the wrong Act to apply but multiple people have been found guilty of retaining national security information under the Act with no intention of harming the US with it.


The Espionage Act relates to specifically to material of national security value and dosen’t require such papers to be declassified or classified - nor does it require the prosecutors to prove any knowledge on Trump’s part that papers relating to national security could do harm to the US if not properly secure, only that a reasonable person would think so. One does not have to show intention to use such information against the US either. Simply not handling them in a secure way or withholding them over time from the FBI and defence community who repeatedly asked them back, can be a breach of the Act and this is exactly what he has been charged with:

18 U.S.C. §§ 793, (d) makes it a crime to remove, copy or share national defense information, or to “willfully [retain]” national defense information and “[fail] to deliver it to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it”—

As I said in my post above about this:

It doesn’t matter whether Trump thinks he declassified the documents or not or whether he realised their importance, just that he had ample opportunity to return papers relating to national security matters when asked and refused to do so …



Not true. The espionage went from prosecuting people for spying to those who leaked classified information.

"The Espionage Act was enacted decades before the executive branch established the current system of classifying national security secrets in 1951. In modern times, the law is often used to prosecute the disclosure of classified documents, but it can also be used in the case of a disclosure of any national defense documents that could harm the United States."

Also

"
18 U.S.C. §§ 793, (d) makes it a crime to remove, copy or share national defense information, or to “willfully [retain]” national defense information and “[fail] to deliver it to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it”—"

Saying you haven't found it yet as they are buried in 100 boxes is not willfully . After moving out no wonder so many are accused of having misplaced documents, its just the one who is being prosecuted.

This was 4 years ago, or getting on for it. Its amazing how all these crimes are being prosecuted in an election year, pure coincidence no doubt. In fact theres been one case to get it moved into the election run in which the supreme court booted, brought by prosecutor smith.
 


Curious Orange

Punxsatawney Phil
Jul 5, 2003
9,962
On NSC for over two decades...
Saying you haven't found it yet as they are buried in 100 boxes is not willfully .

Mr Trump has said a lot about those documents over the years; that he didn't have them; that he did have them but they were his; that he'd declassified the classified ones; that he'd given them all back; and that the FBI had planted them.
 


Albion and Premier League latest from Sky Sports


Top
Link Here