[Politics] Brexit

[beorhthelm]

Despite this I can emphasise with the Scots position, they've been ignored and betrayed. I hope they stay, but I fear the damage is done and now they have a case to go it alone

in what way have they been ignored and betrayed? 20% more funding, devolved government covering health, education, law and police, environment, culture and some extras on social security. apart from harbouring memories of 1980s (oil and poll tax) what is the damage that receive from being in the Union?

 

[nicko31]

How are the Scots 'betrayed'.

I can only imagine you may be thinking that they should have a veto on a UK wide decision that doesn't comply with their current sentiment?

If so, that's hardly a commensurate type of relationship and only harmful in the long term. Why should the Scots be the tail that wags the dog?

The Scots were persuaded by the Tories in 2014 they should stay in the UK as it was in the EU, then within months they were promising a referendum on membership

After a narrow Leave win the Tories then sidelined the Scots in the decision making process at every turn. Johnson has been the final straw, a divisive character to which all that matters is his base. And the add to that he's a useless leader with it as many of use suspected, the handling of this current crisis tells the story.

Sturgeon can't believe her luck

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

The Scots were persuaded by the Tories in 2014 they should stay in the UK as it was in the EU, then within months they were promising a referendum on membership

After a narrow Leave win the Tories then sidelined the Scots in the decision making process at every turn. Johnson has been the final straw, a divisive character to which all that matters is his base. And the add to that he's a useless leader, the handling of this current crisis tells the story

Welcome to the Dis-United Kingdom

As usual, and I say this as a person who is unsure which party I'll vote for in the next election, your view is so tainted by hatred for the Tory party that they are always the thing to blame. I am pretty sure that the liberals, labour party and loads of other politically minded people who didn't want independence in Scotland, also 'persuaded' the Scottish voters. Incidentally, had the Scots won independence, then our exit from the EU would have been achieved far more easily, without the constant bickering and probably would have been more successful given the timing of the epidemic.

A referendum on EU membership was often mooted and so any surprise for it has little sympathy from me. Cameron misjudged the mood massively and the run up to the referendum was juxtaposed with an immigrant/refugee crisis on top of increased Islamic terrorism in Europe. Even that wasn't the fault of the Tories.

 

[pastafarian]

Must say I'm inclined to agree with you.

The arguments for remain were economic based.

The arguments for Brexit were sovereignty based.

People had a choice and made it.

Yep, people had many varied reasons for remaining and leaving, the referendum campaign itself touched on numerous issues, but when it boiled down to it the camps were economic based for remainers and sovereign control over UK decisions based for Leavers.
Seems utterly pointless, but quite funny to watch, people continuing to demand to know from leavers reasons unrelated to control and issues of sovereignty when its what the overwhelming majority of leavers were voting on.

 

[DataPoint]

You are entitled to your view of course and it's as valid as the next man's. However I don't share your opinion that the Scots 'have shrunk to such a low status'. It's the kind of language which many remainers often use to describe England unfairly and in this context it is unfair to use in reference to Scotland. Many Scots enrich our society both here and North of the border, and it has been my pleasure to visit their lovely country and enjoy their hospitality.

And whisky.

I've also been to Scotland many times since 1961 and loved it. I've also been to hundreds of extraordinary places in Wales and England and loved those too- but not to Scotland in the last few years since they've ramped up their hatred of the English. I have pride too!

In the last 50 years Scotland's population has risen by 227,000 (4%).
Wales 413,000 (15%)
NI 354,000 (23%)
England 9,875,000 (21%)

So - England's population has risen in the last 50 years - 43 times that of Scotland's! Or - in the last 50 years EVERYONE in Scotland has moved to England almost TWICE.

At the height of the British Empire Scots made up 18-20% (1 in 5) of the UK population and they achieved a world beating status - now it's just 8% (1 in 12.5) and they have slipped right back to the pack.

If an independent Scotland re-joined the EU they would 19th of the 27 countries by population - just 1.4% (1 in 80 of the 400,000). They would look up to 17 countries they had previously they looked down on - the ultimate downfall?

To be honest, they struggle, now, to compete equally with their larger neighbour and it drives some of them crazy with resentment!

I believe the Scots desire to leave the UK is not political - not financial - but phycological. So frustrated are they that it's 'Anyone but England'.

For that - some of the are willing to rip up every bit of stability they have in a forlorn attempt to punish England.

Ps Oops! - It's Burn's night, good luck, sorry! I want to love you - please don't make it difficult.

 

[nicko31]

As usual, and I say this as a person who is unsure which party I'll vote for in the next election, your view is so tainted by hatred for the Tory party that they are always the thing to blame. I am pretty sure that the liberals, labour party and loads of other politically minded people who didn't want independence in Scotland, also 'persuaded' the Scottish voters. Incidentally, had the Scots won independence, then our exit from the EU would have been achieved far more easily, without the constant bickering and probably would have been more successful given the timing of the epidemic.

A referendum on EU membership was often mooted and so any surprise for it has little sympathy from me. Cameron misjudged the mood massively and the run up to the referendum was juxtaposed with an immigrant/refugee crisis on top of increased Islamic terrorism in Europe. Even that wasn't the fault of the Tories.

In fairness I don't think Brexit would have been any more simple without the the Scots. The achilles heel of Brexit has been the Irish border something that was highlighted during the referendum by the likes of Blair, Major and even May, but no one wanted to engage in the discussion. Numerous times I heard people say it was a red herring

The rest is history

 

[Machiavelli]

In other news..

[emoji636]Born to win.


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Red tape. Regulations. Stifling Global Britain.

 

[pastafarian]

As usual, and I say this as a person who is unsure which party I'll vote for in the next election, your view is so tainted by hatred for the Tory party that they are always the thing to blame. I am pretty sure that the liberals, labour party and loads of other politically minded people who didn't want independence in Scotland, also 'persuaded' the Scottish voters. Incidentally, had the Scots won independence, then our exit from the EU would have been achieved far more easily, without the constant bickering and probably would have been more successful given the timing of the epidemic.

A referendum on EU membership was often mooted and so any surprise for it has little sympathy from me. Cameron misjudged the mood massively and the run up to the referendum was juxtaposed with an immigrant/refugee crisis on top of increased Islamic terrorism in Europe. Even that wasn't the fault of the Tories.

Incidentally, the Scottish pastafarian family (lowlanders-apparently this is important) are all pro Independence but do not want to join the EU as some sort of backflip "why would we get free of you barstard English only to give up Scots powers to Europe........Free Willy!" ......or something, tbh i lose interest after a bit.
They are not alone in this thinking.

 

[nicko31]

The writing was already on the wall for the UK economy in the bygone days of the 70s. Membership of the EEC arrested the decline. Anyone who looks back on the 70s as some sort of Golden Age probably wasn't there. I remember when we were characterised (not without reason) as 'the sick man of Europe' and I have horrible feeling that the wheel might be turning full circle.

Still quite a few on here going on about sovereignty. Its fine till you lose your job and realise that someone in the Netherlands has taken it, but they can thank Johnson and his pals for that, he gifted it to them.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Still quite a few on here going on about sovereignty. Its fine till you lose your job and realise that someone in the Netherlands has taken it, but they can thank Johnson and his pals for that, he gifted it to them.

Yes but if you are retired you can bask in your sovereignty and file that under SEP - Somebody Else's Problem.

 

[nicko31]

Yes but if you are retired you can bask in your sovereignty and file that under SEP - Somebody Else's Problem.

Paul Dacre's foot soldiers...

 

[Randy McNob]

Talk that Johnson is going to Scotland on an " All out bid to save the United Kingdom" and launch a " Charm Offensive" to woo the Scots.. What could possibly go wrong? [emoji1787][emoji6]

 

[Bodian]

In other news..

[emoji636]Born to win.


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Pretty sure we had that / were promised that whilst inside the EU anyway?

 

[The Clamp]

Scotland wants to shake England off and get back into the EU. And frankly, who can blame them. They feel England is taking it down with them in this Brexit disaster. As do NI and Wales. England is now a toxic country because of Brexit and the Little Englander's attitude. People don't want to stand next to us.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Scotland wants to shake England off and get back into the EU. And frankly, who can blame them. They feel England is taking it down with them in this Brexit disaster. As do NI and Wales. England is now a toxic country because of Brexit and the Little Englander's attitude. People don't want to stand next to us.

Amusing how all the anti Brexit types peddling the Little Englander/English exceptionalism line always forget that a majority in Wales voted to Leave the EU as did many people in all parts of the UK.

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[Pretty pink fairy]

Scotland wants to shake England off and get back into the EU. And frankly, who can blame them. They feel England is taking it down with them in this Brexit disaster. As do NI and Wales. England is now a toxic country because of Brexit and the Little Englander's attitude. People don't want to stand next to us.

What have the jocks got to offer the EU , the SNP ?
Regards
DF

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Scotland wants to shake England off and get back into the EU. And frankly, who can blame them. They feel England is taking it down with them in this Brexit disaster. As do NI and Wales. England is now a toxic country because of Brexit and the Little Englander's attitude. People don't want to stand next to us.

It's all a bit of a shock for you Nibble, time to get out of your bubble and smell the coffee
Regards
DF

 

[Lever]

Amusing how all the anti Brexit types peddling the Little Englander/English exceptionalism line always forget that a majority in Wales voted to Leave the EU as did many people in all parts of the UK.

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How can you possibly know that?
You cannot know it.
More rhetorical drivel.

 

[Randy McNob]

Amusing how all the anti Brexit types peddling the Little Englander/English exceptionalism line always forget that a majority in Wales voted to Leave the EU as did many people in all parts of the UK.

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Lets shoehorn the 2016 referendum into the discussion, Brexiters be all and end all

 

[nicko31]

Amusing how all the anti Brexit types peddling the Little Englander/English exceptionalism line always forget that a majority in Wales voted to Leave the EU as did many people in all parts of the UK.

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You need to own this JC, no more excuses.

Infact anyone that voted for Johnson voted to basically delete the UK from the world map.