The Vaccine Thread

[Medwayseagull]

My mother’s care home is in Hailsham. She is 91 and still not vaccinated.

Same happening in parts of Kent according to regional news. The good news is starting to get undermined by a postcode lottery effect. My sister-in-law and her husband living in Surrey, both mid 70's getting their first jab today.

 

[Billy the Fish]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XOZDa4rKxNg&feature=youtu.be

Surely this plus the vaccine company pushing the two jabs means we have to change track

That is a bit of a bugger. The initial decision was always based on modeling. I assume they'll feed the new data into their models and base policy aground it.

 

[dsr-burnley]

That is a bit of a bugger. The initial decision was always based on modeling. I assume they'll feed the new data into their models and base policy aground it.

I'm sure they are. But who, apart from Mark Stones the reporter, says that the results are worse than expected? Both doctors interviewed were optimistic about the results so far and the second one, the statistician, only said that future results are uncertain.

What those figures say is that the vaccine, which was supposed to start work on day 12, is already having a significant effect by day 14. Let it run another week and then see what the numbers are doing.

https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/i...ectiveness-only-covers-first-14-days-1.510887

This article is the only one I can find where the 33% figure is looked at scientifically as opposed to just as a headline. He points out, though not in so many words, that just because the effectiveness is 33% after 14 days when the vaccine hasn't really got going yet does not mean that the estimated 89% after 21 days is wrong.

I look at it this way. The vaccine, according to Pfizer, does not work until day 12. And by day 14, in spite of the numbers testing positive who had the virus before day 12, it is showing significantly good results. When it reaches day 21, we will have a much better idea.

 

[1901Phil]

Vaccinations West Kent

Same happening in parts of Kent according to regional news. The good news is starting to get undermined by a postcode lottery effect. My sister-in-law and her husband living in Surrey, both mid 70's getting their first jab today.

I live in Tunbridge Wells. My wife and I are both late 70's and are having our vaccinations tomorrow

 

[dazzer6666]

Same happening in parts of Kent according to regional news. The good news is starting to get undermined by a postcode lottery effect. My sister-in-law and her husband living in Surrey, both mid 70's getting their first jab today.

Still fairly early days in the great scheme of things and was always going to be a bit of an imbalance (and there will be throughout the programme for sure) - having waited a year for this, a bit more patience required in some quarters perhaps. There’s no suggestion that all O80s are anywhere near done yet (think it’s more like 50%).

If claims start flying around that all of a group has been done when they haven’t, then start shouting (I’ve got elderly relatives waiting for appointments BTW)

 

[Granny on the wing]

I'm sure they are. But who, apart from Mark Stones the reporter, says that the results are worse than expected? Both doctors interviewed were optimistic about the results so far and the second one, the statistician, only said that future results are uncertain.

What those figures say is that the vaccine, which was supposed to start work on day 12, is already having a significant effect by day 14. Let it run another week and then see what the numbers are doing.

https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/i...ectiveness-only-covers-first-14-days-1.510887

This article is the only one I can find where the 33% figure is looked at scientifically as opposed to just as a headline. He points out, though not in so many words, that just because the effectiveness is 33% after 14 days when the vaccine hasn't really got going yet does not mean that the estimated 89% after 21 days is wrong.

I look at it this way. The vaccine, according to Pfizer, does not work until day 12. And by day 14, in spite of the numbers testing positive who had the virus before day 12, it is showing significantly good results. When it reaches day 21, we will have a much better idea.

I am starting to think that the Government has made a mess of things all the way through so there is a a good chance they are with the vaccine .Why go against the Manufacture`s advice and WHO ? A job worth doing is worth doing well is the old saying .They told us for ages you did not need to wear a masks ,it was a waste of time .Then you got the Borders not forgetting the Care Homes what a nightmare !

 

[beorhthelm]

I am starting to think that the Government has made a mess of things all the way through so there is a a good chance they are with the vaccine .Why go against the Manufacture`s advice and WHO ? A job worth doing is worth doing well is the old saying .They told us for ages you did not need to wear a masks ,it was a waste of time .Then you got the Borders not forgetting the Care Homes what a nightmare !

because MHRA and JCVI look at the data and think it makes sense. bottom line is give more people with some protection and less serious response.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...arding-the-uk-covid-19-vaccination-programmes

 

[dsr-burnley]

Why go against the Manufacture`s advice and WHO ? A job worth doing is worth doing well is the old saying .

It's a tricky one. My mother had her first jab before Christmas, but her second jab was postponed. Could I honestly pick one of the people having jabs on that day, 12th January, and say that they shouldn't be getting their first jab because my mother wants her second?

 

[Granny on the wing]

It's a tricky one. My mother had her first jab before Christmas, but her second jab was postponed. Could I honestly pick one of the people having jabs on that day, 12th January, and say that they shouldn't be getting their first jab because my mother wants her second?

We will have to wait a bit for the Data to come through but if it was say 60% protection on the first jab out of say 100,000 people ,so if you gave 2 jabs to 50,000 people and none to other 50,000 ,would it be any worse then 100,000 of 1 jab. If you take into account with 1 jab the virus could circulate through all of the people i don`t think there is a way of working out which is worst .Baring in mind they are all elderly so they are frail .Is there a way of solving that issue i do not know .

 

[crodonilson]

Very concerning piece in the Guradian regarding the South African variant of Covid and thet it appears that the antibodies it produces are 8 times less effective at beasting off Covid than the other strains currently known. If this is the cases even with a full vaccination programme it is correct many governments around the world are now stating the vaccinaton is only one of the tools in the toolbox ti tacjle the virus and other measures such as mask wearing, social distancing and periodic lockdowns, particularly at local levels will need to continue into the future to ensure the virus doesn't get out of hand again.

 

[nicko31]

I am starting to think that the Government has made a mess of things all the way through so there is a a good chance they are with the vaccine .Why go against the Manufacture`s advice and WHO ? A job worth doing is worth doing well is the old saying .They told us for ages you did not need to wear a masks ,it was a waste of time .Then you got the Borders not forgetting the Care Homes what a nightmare !

Lots of unknowns with the Pfizer jab and we are still learning. With this in mind best apply the vaccine inline with manufacturers direction, going off label to 12 weeks for 2nd application just doesn't seem worth to be it.

I keep praying they can't cock anything else up, but don't underestimate them...

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Lots of unknowns with the Pfizer jab and we are still learning. With this in mind best apply the vaccine inline with manufacturers direction, going off label to 12 weeks for 2nd application just doesn't seem worth to be it.

I keep praying they can't cock anything else up, but don't underestimate them...

View attachment 132745

Without denying the Gov have been a complete shambles, this seems to be driven by JVT/Vallance?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

NHS staff being threatened of losing their licence?

[tweet]1351995845898608643[/tweet]

 

[nicko31]

NHS staff being threatened of losing their licence?

[tweet]1351995845898608643[/tweet]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the UK is the only country in the world applying the 2nd Pfizer does at 12 weeks (Denmark is at 6)

Anyone with elderly members that have been vaccinated with only the first Pfizer jab should behave as if they have not been vaccinated at all

 

[dsr-burnley]

Lots of unknowns with the Pfizer jab and we are still learning. With this in mind best apply the vaccine inline with manufacturers direction, going off label to 12 weeks for 2nd application just doesn't seem worth to be it.

I keep praying they can't cock anything else up, but don't underestimate them...

View attachment 132745

I know this professor is a specialist in infectious diseases, but I don't think she has read the report properly. Specifically, citing the case study that suggests 33% reduction after 14 days as proof that the government's figure of 89% after 21 days, does not make sense. She hasn't even referred to the difference in dates, which suggests she is tweeting in response to a story that she hasn't really read.

 

[dsr-burnley]

NHS staff being threatened of losing their licence?

[tweet]1351995845898608643[/tweet]

I suspect that this isn't government policy, this is NHS jobsworth policy. Mark Drakesworth in Wales has much the same attitude - if it isn't done "by the book", then it is better not done at all. It's an appalling letter, and if the person who sent it has the power to fulfil the threat, then someone above him or her ought to seriously consider whether he is in the right place.

Surely by now the NHS beaurocracy ought to be fully on board with the idea that vaccinating people is more important than systems?

(Of course, we don't know what correspondence led up to the letter.)

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I suspect that this isn't government policy, this is NHS jobsworth policy. Mark Drakesworth in Wales has much the same attitude - if it isn't done "by the book", then it is better not done at all. It's an appalling letter, and if the person who sent it has the power to fulfil the threat, then someone above him or her ought to seriously consider whether he is in the right place.

Surely by now the NHS beaurocracy ought to be fully on board with the idea that vaccinating people is more important than systems?

(Of course, we don't know what correspondence led up to the letter.)

The original article.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...cines-nhs-hospitals-second-dose-b1790217.html

 

[nicko31]

I know this professor is a specialist in infectious diseases, but I don't think she has read the report properly. Specifically, citing the case study that suggests 33% reduction after 14 days as proof that the government's figure of 89% after 21 days, does not make sense. She hasn't even referred to the difference in dates, which suggests she is tweeting in response to a story that she hasn't really read.

We're the only country in the world that is "off label" on Pfzier out to 12 weeks on the second dose, its outside the manufacturers direction.

Government thinks it knows better than everyone else, again we were seeing exceptionalism.

There could be a possibility that some countries will consider Pfzier vaccination applied from the UK invalid and will not permit entry

Not to mention the risk of undermining public confidence in vaccination which is absolutely essential

They haven't thought it through...

 

[crodonilson]

Certainly appears even if Israel is not entirely accurate the efficacy on the Pfizer is much below the 89% touted leaving many millions very vulnerable until they've received their 2nd jabs and had the 3 weeks to build up an imune response which will even at a good lick probsbly take us into June.

 

[beorhthelm]

We're the only country in the world that is "off label" on Pfzier out to 12 weeks on the second dose, its outside the manufacturers direction.

Government thinks it knows better than everyone else, again we were seeing exceptionalism.

There could be a possibility that some countries will consider Pfzier vaccination applied from the UK invalid and will not permit entry

Not to mention the risk of undermining public confidence in vaccination which is absolutely essential

They haven't thought it through...

this is the data that MHRA (the organisation responsible and issued the 12 week guidance) has used, showing 82% efficacy from 15-21 days after one dose. this is published by Pfizer, in New England Medical Journal originally

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33301246/#&gid=article-figures&pid=figure-3-uid-2

EU guidance, as followed by Demark noted, has advised 42 days, longer than Pfizer's 21 days. so not the only country.

as pointed out above, the Israel study is based on 14 days, claiming that efficacy is only 33%.

now people want to infer a 14 day study should invalidate expected results at 21 days. why?