Boris Johnson to hold press conference at 4pm

[beorhthelm]

They’re happy to string it out because giving a target would instantly put a lot more scrutiny on what they’re doing to reach it.

Weren’t they talking about close to 10 million jabs by the end of 2020 not too long ago? Well it’s 20th December and we’ve only had 350,000. These amateurs will do anything to divert attention away from their own performance.

no. there was never talk of vaccination targets until there were approvals, many didnt expect a vaccine this year at all. there was talk about tests in those sorts of numbers.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

we're waiting for the Oxford vaccine approval, easier to roll out. we vaccinate about 30m people with flu jab every year in a few months, no reason this one cant be done as swiftly.

Given the Gov performance, do you trust them not to feck this up?

 

[beorhthelm]

Given the Gov performance, do you trust them not to feck this up?

its not about government at that point, the question is do you trust the health service to deliver. they do so every year so i dont see why not.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Given the Gov performance, do you trust them not to feck this up?

In terms of the vaccine roll out, you've got to remember that 2 of the greatest British institutions (and frankly on the planet) are combining to deliver it:

1. The NHS
2. HM Armed Forces

It'll work.

 

[vegster]

Was this new updated information really known by Boris last Wednesday at PMQs then?
Do you have any evidence of this?

Dr Susan Hopkins of Public Health England was on Marr this morning saying they didn’t understand about the difference in transmissibility of the known about variant until their boffins concluded their studies this week, and they notified the government on Friday about their findings.

There was an all nation conference call on Saturday morning to address these new serious concerns. Druckford called a Welsh emergency cabinet meeting 2pm Saturday, Boris called an emergency cabinet meeting at 1pm Saturday and Sturgeon called an emergency cabinet meeting because of emerging evidence Saturday afternoon.

Within a couple of hours all 3 announced new measures.

Thinking objectively, this would suggest it was new updated information available from Friday and not “certainly known” last Wednesday.

I would suggest that Johnson has previous form for trying to get things passed quickly through the Commons or, by proroguing parliament or other duplicitous means. even his own party are getting wise to it now....https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/20/england-new-covid-restrictions-likely-to-stay-for-months-until-vaccine-rollout

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

In terms of the vaccine roll out, you've got to remember that 2 of the greatest British institutions (and frankly on the planet) are combining to deliver it:

1. The NHS
2. HM Armed Forces

It'll work.

its not about government at that point, the question is do you trust the health service to deliver. they do so every year so i dont see why not.

I hope you are both right!

 

[pastafarian]

I would suggest that Johnson has previous form for trying to get things passed quickly through the Commons or, by proroguing parliament or other duplicitous means. even his own party are getting wise to it now....https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/20/england-new-covid-restrictions-likely-to-stay-for-months-until-vaccine-rollout

I dont have any issue with Boris, Druckford or Sturgeon acting on new information available from friday, so not entirely sure what point you are trying to make.

 

[ManOfSussex]

I hope you are both right!

Seriously, if the combined might of The NHS and HM armed forces in tandem don't deliver then we're somewhat ****ed as there is no hope.

 

[vegster]

I dont have any issue with Boris, Druckford or Sturgeon acting on new information available from friday, so not entirely sure what point you are trying to make.

Not making a point as such, read the article.

 

[pastafarian]

Not making a point as such, read the article.

I did. Its a mess of an article.

Not least that Boris has `cancelled christmas`. Has anyone told Jesus that Boris has the authority to do this?
Im guessing the real christmas message was lost a long time ago if people think it can be so easily cancelled.

 

[vegster]

I did. Its a mess of an article.

Not least that Boris has `cancelled christmas`. Has anyone told Jesus that Boris has the authority to do this?
Im guessing the real christmas message was lost a long time ago if people think it can be so easily cancelled.

looks like you missed the main point of the article. They are trying to point out that Johnson may have bypassed parliament, and his Tory party critics by announcing the new measures AFTER parliament had ended for Christmas.

 

[pastafarian]

looks like you missed the main point of the article. They are trying to point out that Johnson may have bypassed parliament, and his Tory party critics by announcing the new measures AFTER parliament had ended for Christmas.

Someone should give the virus a tinkle and tell it to reveal its secrets to the boffins BEFORE parliament goes on holiday

 

[pb21]

In conclusion then and what most people seem to realise anyway.
There has been new updated information from the scientists resulting in England, Wales and Scotland all having to announce new measures yesterday.

There is a difference between new information and confirmed information.

I would be very surprised if PHE found this new information and confirmed it on the same day

What is much more likely was this new information was actually new back in around September, albeit at that time it was completely inconsequential, one of the 3,000+ bits of new covid information.

Since then it has become more and more consequential and important, increasingly likely to account for the Kent situation etc. and then confirmed to an appropriate level of confidence in the past few days. Then decisions made on that basis.

 

[beorhthelm]

There is a difference between new information and confirmed information.

I would be very surprised if PHE found this new information and confirmed it on the same day

What is much more likely was this new information was actually new back in around September, albeit at that time it was completely inconsequential, one of the 3,000+ bits of new covid information.

Since then it has become more and more consequential and important, increasingly likely to account for the Kent situation etc. and then confirmed to an appropriate level of confidence in the past few days. Then decisions made on that basis.

according to BMJ, the variant wasnt identified by Genomics UK until October, on samples taken in Septemeber. since then about 1000 samples identified, out of about 150k (about 10% total tests are genetically sequenced).

 

[dazzer6666]

In terms of the vaccine roll out, you've got to remember that 2 of the greatest British institutions (and frankly on the planet) are combining to deliver it:

1. The NHS
2. HM Armed Forces

It'll work.

This. Massive, well-organised mass vaccination programme incoming.

 

[pastafarian]

There is a difference between new information and confirmed information.

I would be very surprised if PHE found this new information and confirmed it on the same day

What is much more likely was this new information was actually new back in around September, albeit at that time it was completely inconsequential, one of the 3,000+ bits of new covid information.

Since then it has become more and more consequential and important, increasingly likely to account for the Kent situation etc. and then confirmed to an appropriate level of confidence in the past few days. Then decisions made on that basis.

Fairly certain Public Health England lady said the new information given to the government on friday was after their boffins had come to a conclusion after monitoring the information for a while but prior to that didnt really understand the transmissibility of the new known about variant until this week.

If you have a calculation to work out, and cant figure out the answer until friday it doesnt mean you had the answer before friday even though you were looking at the equations before that.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Was this new updated information really known by Boris last Wednesday at PMQs then?
Do you have any evidence of this?

Dr Susan Hopkins of Public Health England was on Marr this morning saying they didn’t understand about the difference in transmissibility of the known about variant until their boffins concluded their studies this week, and they notified the government on Friday about their findings.

There was an all nation conference call on Saturday morning to address these new serious concerns. Druckford called a Welsh emergency cabinet meeting 2pm Saturday, Boris called an emergency cabinet meeting at 1pm Saturday and Sturgeon called an emergency cabinet meeting because of emerging evidence Saturday afternoon.

Within a couple of hours all 3 announced new measures.

Thinking objectively, this would suggest it was new updated information available from Friday and not “certainly known” last Wednesday.

I don’t doubt that some specific fact of information may have come out on Friday, there’s some new bit of science every week. This new variant has been known since September. The spikes in London, Kent, Essex etc. were clearly known in order to put them in tier 3, the growth data showed it was spreading faster than normal even if specific transmission data wasn’t available yet - which is all I think was given to confirm what many scientists were already telling the government.

So the point is really as a leader you can prepare the country for the potential changes that may need to come in. Not repeatedly bang out the mantra that Christmas plans will not be changing. He couldn’t possibly say with any surety they wouldn’t need to change and should have been honest from the start they’d be under constant review.

He’s using this data, and as you are on this thread as some revelatory moment on Saturday. It wasn’t, all it was was scientific confirmation of what the scientists were already concluding in the weeks previous.

 

[beorhthelm]

He’s using this data, and as you are on this thread as some revelatory moment on Saturday. It wasn’t, all it was was scientific confirmation of what the scientists were already concluding in the weeks previous.

the scientist calling for no Christmas break were not doing so because of knowledge of the variant strain. they did so because variously they are perma-lockdown advocates or out of general caution in response to rising rates. lets stop pretending there was a widespread knowledge of the variant and its effects, when the experts themselves say they didnt really know until last week (briefing paper on 18th Dec)

 

[Bold Seagull]

the scientist calling for no Christmas break were not doing so because of knowledge of the variant strain. they did so because variously they are perma-lockdown advocates or out of general caution in response to rising rates. lets stop pretending there was a widespread knowledge of the variant and its effects, when the experts themselves say they didnt really know until last week (briefing paper on 18th Dec)

Your missing the point regarding political language. Until Wednesday last week our PM was steadfast in Christmas rules would not change. Regardless of who is advocating what, he should have prepared the public that things may well change. The rapid rises in the now tier 4 areas from the start of December after a national lockdown should have been enough to have had advised everyone that Xmas plans would be under constant review. He didn’t, unlike giving us forewarning of tier reviews well in advance, as late as Wednesday last week he was insisting it would not change.