drew
Drew
Really!!! And what if you have to go and stand at the bar and wait with others for service?
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[Drinking] 10PM pub closing. what will people do ?
- Thread starter happypig
- Start date
Really!!! And what if you have to go and stand at the bar and wait with others for service?
This. Really, how can people not see that this is a failing government struggling to come up with a coherent policy ? It's no better than the 6 rule ( which I have to admit to breaking at the weekend - and intend to again ). What makes 6 people together any less of a risk than 7 ? How many families can there be of six or less ? Equally, if government advisors ( Cuuunnnntttings for example ) and MPs ( look at the train pictures today about no mask ) can break the rules with no punishment then why should I bother to listen to them ? Utterly, utterly, utterly ridiculous. And don't even get me started on the £10k fines !!!!!! **** rant over .... for now ****
Did I say we should ignore them? No. But again, it is just data.
Strategy is about what you are going to do.
None of this is a surprise. We knew these datasets would emerge but the government has no long term plan.
It needs to say what it is going to do beyond the next announcement.
Again, I am not disagreeing with the data.
I am taking issue with the fact that there is no strategy.
Well, yes. I posted a fair bit on this, this morning, in the Covid-19 sub-forum based on an interview with the architect of the Swedish approach. I can't be arsed to go copy and paste it - it's easy enough to find if you want to.
Unrelated: I'm not sure how you can brush it away as "just data". Over 40,000 lives lost is "just data" to a point.
LamieRobertson
Not awoke
I didn’t say that and you know that..do you blindly follow whatever the government says? Oh no you didn’t say that
Saltydog
New member
UK wide, earlier in Sept (sorry I noted the numbers but neglected to include the date but it was in w/c 7th) the number listed as in hospital was 757. By the 17th it had risen to 988, 18th 1,020, and on 19th & 20th 1,081. This is an increase of around 43%. On the numbers of individuals on ventilators it rose from 77 to 138 during the same period. That’s about a 79% increase.
We need to spare a thought for those who have to care for those inflicted before rushing off to the pub and complaining that a 10pm cut off is not fair.
Tom Hark Preston Park
Will Post For Cash
- Jul 6, 2003
- 70,385
Government has to set SOME kind of parameters shirley, whether that be for how many people meet up, what time the pubs close, how big a fine. Always going to be highly debated by all manner of whatiffery but you have to start somewhere. Parameters can always be tweaked in the light of experience. No great fan of BJ regime in any shape or form, but really, in this instance, what else are they supposed to do?
Saltydog
New member
So looking around the globe do you see a strategy that we should latch on to?
Broadly, when it comes to our collective fight to defeat this virus, yes I will follow guidance issued because I want us to get out the other side as quickly as we can, with as little damage as possible.
LamieRobertson
Not awoke
It was a rhetorical question.......for me i need to have a tad more faith in the way that guidance is issued, its content and who is giving it .
Now I’m back to carry on with work...while ive still got some.
Oh don't be so pious or obtuse when you realise the point being made. To conflate my comments on data with some imagined idea that I don't care about those who have lost loved ones is at best unfair and at worst, insulting.
That is not my job. It is the reason we elect people to positions of responsibility. What is clear is that those people are unable to manage this situation.
Different countries have taken different approaches. Sweden and New Zealand's could not be more different, but they are clear strategies.
Our country is different to other countries so it is not a one size fits all approach.
I have my own pet theories but it is not my day job. But I recognise an absence of leadership when I see one.
Saltydog
New member
So please tell me who has managed this situation well in your opinion?
- Aug 8, 2005
- 26,607
Indeed, it is impossible to compare our approach with those of other countries. A lot of people point to New Zealand, but we are so much more densely populated and a central hub for world travel that the comparison is like comparing the heat on Earth with the heat on the Sun and asking why people who live on the Sun can't cope with it as well we do!
Similar comparisons with Sweden are also not reasonable either, firstly because not as densely populated but also because 50% of the population live on their own. An amazing stat, but quite true apparently.
Pavilionaire
Well-known member
- Jul 7, 2003
- 30,647
So I have an office building with 5 offices and 5 members of staff. Things have been fine since we were allowed to return to our offices. But now the government have changed their position and are advising that "if people can work from home we would encourage them to do so".
So I lose my staff in the office even though we can socially distance, but once they've finished work they can all go down the pub and drink until 10pm, or meet up with friends under the Rule of Six?
So I lose my staff in the office even though we can socially distance, but once they've finished work they can all go down the pub and drink until 10pm, or meet up with friends under the Rule of Six?
Saltydog
New member
What are these different challenges please? Also what have their strategies been and how have they been effective?
I saw positives ref NZ but then read a few negative that people found it be too oppressive - not sure if an oppressive strategy would be accepted here. Also recall reading that the damage to their economy was severe - but could not provide a comparison with the impact on our own economy.
Taiwan. Now they do appear to have handled it well. However do you truly believe that the population of the UK would be so welcoming or subservient to accept such a strategy?
Singapore also is reported to have had a strong hand and hard approach. However it seems a big challenge for them was how to protect the labour migrants that they were only to happy to welcome when it suited.
Canada - I have not read a lot on their approach (but will see what I can locate). They do appear to have had some high case numbers in parts but these appear to be confined to the urban areas and have not as one might expect impacted on the massive less populated areas where people have often lived in isolation for many generations.
Be interested to read why you feel these strategies are better than ours ( or as you suggested our lack of) and how they can benefit us here. Would we accept a strict and at times brutal control? Would we toe the line on rigidly enforced curfews? I suspect not we’ve had it too easy for too long. Not sure that a 10pm pub closing time would be the issue at the top of many’s concerns!
Gully Forever
Well-known member
- May 9, 2011
- 1,543
I'm Personally glad I don't have the obsessive need to go out to a pub.
GT49er
Well-known member
Completely agree - the fact that some people don't have faith in the guidance, or just hate the government/Boris Johnson, is no excuse for them to decide not to follow the guidance because they don't like it.
They are basically the tw@ts who have made the measures taken less effective than they could have been.