[Politics] Brexit

[WATFORD zero]

Dear old Ken is hardly representative of the ignore the people remain alliance .... someone who is - Dominic Grieve voted against the Brexit deal 3 times and voted against no-deal.

Of course, it's about leave or remain but it doesn't suit remains narrative to admit that. The 'It's only about leaving with the right sort of deal ' line blah blah while conveniently never agreeing what that deal should be and then attempting to take no-deal off the table ... surprise surprise we can't/don't leave.

And where are these 'negotiations' taking place ? You know, the ones that you are hoping will get us your infamous 'good deal'. The ones that taking 'no deal' off the table will undermine ?

I'm sorry, but you really are a goon at times

 

[Thunder Bolt]

They don't like protestors, do they?

[tweet]1169178451129114624[/tweet]

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

hes a man of the peoeple looking after the workeing class

Regards
DR

DR is an abbreviation of a former avatar of yours that was banned as it supported and glorified the actions of a Nazi military unit and the Nazi regime. They committed war crimes against innocent people and many people died at their hands, your playful use of it insults these people.

After this had been highlighted many times, you appeared to have stopped using, I do not know if the MODS requested this and you are just now ignoring them or you realised it is not something to make light of. I am sure people will keep highlighting this whenever it is used, as a respect to people that were massacred by their actions.

Most of the unit lived out their life's happily shielded by the East German regime, and must have taken delight at your constant reference to their exploits.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oradour-sur-Glane_massacre

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2nd_SS_Panzer_Division_Das_Reich

 

[Simster]

how do you make this conclusion? without a majority they need support of one or more parties that are firmly remain. or you would bank on them campaigning on another referendum, with support from SNP/Liberals to deliver that?

It's perfectly simple - if the SNP/Lib Dems were forced between a government coalition with Labour on the promise of a negotiated soft Brexit or standing by and letting the Tories form another government with confidence and supply from the DUP/Brexit Party, what do you think is likelier?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

That conclusion ignores the obvious fact that the Tory party have made a total mess of negotiations. They've had 3 years to negotiate a deal and utterly failed. The "No deal" option should never have even been considered, and we were told it would never come to that anyway. The fault for this mess entirely lies with the Tory party - piss poor negotiation and absurd piss taking red lines.

The two aren't mutually exclusive I agree they have which the remain side has exploited. We also agreed previously that it would have been better if Brexiteers had been in charge from the beginning to live up to their promises, own any mess but since they have taken over I see you don't seem so keen.

Those red lines reflected the leave campaigns priorities and having no deal as the option of last resort essential in conducting a succesful negotation. If only we had prepared for it from the beginning.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

They don't like protestors, do they?

[tweet]1169178451129114624[/tweet]

Edit to add, it was all for Johnson.

[tweet]1169199114162229250[/tweet]

 

[Simster]

The two aren't mutually exclusive I agree they have which the remain side has exploited. We also agreed previously that it would have been better if Brexiteers had been in charge from the beginning to live up to their promises, own any mess but since they have taken over I see you don't seem so keen.

Those red lines reflected the leave campaigns priorities and having no deal as the option of last resort essential in conducting a succesful negotation. If only we had prepared for it from the beginning.

Indeed. I don't seem so keen because funnily enough I didn't fully expect these Brexiteer's only tactics to be to play chicken with British people's jobs, health and safety, and bullying democratically elected people in their own party who found this tactic equally unpalatable. Sorry if you consider that a personal afront.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Boris still claiming we are leaving on 31st

 

[WATFORD zero]

The two aren't mutually exclusive I agree they have which the remain side has exploited. We also agreed previously that it would have been better if Brexiteers had been in charge from the beginning to live up to their promises, own any mess but since they have taken over I see you don't seem so keen.

Those red lines reflected the leave campaigns priorities and having no deal as the option of last resort essential in conducting a succesful negotation. If only we had prepared for it from the beginning.

So which are you backing today, the 'good deal' lie or the 'no deal' lie ?

It's just that you've always claimed 'no deal' was a negotiating position to get you your 'good deal'. But since you now understand that you have no idea what a 'good deal' looks like, and while Johnson seems incapable of actually outlining a proposal to put to the EU to begin negotiations on his 'good deal', it must be a fairly confusing time for you

 

[beorhthelm]

It's perfectly simple - if the SNP/Lib Dems were forced between a government coalition with Labour on the promise of a negotiated soft Brexit or standing by and letting the Tories form another government with confidence and supply from the DUP/Brexit Party, what do you think is likelier?

honestly wouldnt want to bet either way. main problem is i cant see SNP accepting brexit negotiation, having been so hard remain. recall that they abstained from one of the indicative votes that may have ended this.

 

[WATFORD zero]

honestly wouldnt want to bet either way. main problem is i cant see SNP accepting brexit negotiation, having been so hard remain.

I think that a temporary coalition based on a second referendum followed by another GE would be the most sensible way. It separates the Brexit question from who is going to be running the country and gives an answer actually based on a democratic vote (instead of remainers, soft Brexit and hard Brexit supporters all claiming they are in the majority) and it's got to be better than more years of bollox completely throttling Britain's companies, economy, and less well off.

GE, referendum, GE isn't ideal, but I believe it's the most efficient way out of this completel clusterf***. If only someone could have foreseen this

*edit* And while we're at it, a change to the FPTP voting system, which hasn't exactly come out of this smelling of roses

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Boris still claiming we are leaving on 31st

All he needs is an election before that date, the Brexit Party not to stand - no doubt already arranged - and it's a *no deal* charge off the cliff for us all on October 31st.

 

[CHAPPERS]

All he needs is an election before that date, the Brexit Party not to stand - no doubt already arranged - and it's a *no deal* charge off the cliff for us all on October 31st.

How is he going to get an election without Labour support?

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

How is he going to get an election without Labour support?

Corbyn will think the work is done today to prevent *no deal*, and will fall into the elephant trap before any extension is non-reversable.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Corbyn will think the work is done today to prevent *no deal*, and will fall into the elephant trap before any extension is non-reversable.

Corbyn is well aware of the trap.

 

[beorhthelm]

I think that a temporary coalition based on a second referendum followed by another GE would be the most sensible way. It separates the Brexit question from who is going to be running the country and gives an answer actually based on a democratic vote (instead of remainers, soft Brexit and hard Brexit supporters all claiming they are in the majority) and it's got to be better than more years of bollox completely throttling Britain's companies, economy, and less well off.

that might be a solution if there's a majority in parliament for a referendum. the leavers will say its a way of stopping the first (well aware its implicit they think they'd lose), so damaging electorally in leave areas. sooner or later some MPs will have to accept seats sacrificed to reach a conclusion.

 

[Ernest]

This is shockingly bad , I wonder when the letters will start going into Brady for a vote of no confidence

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

This is shockingly bad , I wonder when the letters will start going into Brady for a vote of no confidence

At this rate there soon won't be anyone left in the party to write a letter.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

This is shockingly bad , I wonder when the letters will start going into Brady for a vote of no confidence

Your chlorinated chicken leader certainly is getting a basting

 

[WATFORD zero]

that might be a solution if there's a majority in parliament for a referendum. the leavers will say its a way of stopping the first (well aware its implicit they think they'd lose), so damaging electorally in leave areas. sooner or later some MPs will have to accept seats sacrificed to reach a conclusion.

I just think that pretending we are going to get a 'good deal' and pretending that we are going 'no deal' have really run their course and even a blind mole with cataracts can see that.

Second referendum. 1st/2nd options - Hard Brexit WTO, Soft Brexit Customs Union, Withdraw Article 50.

And before anyone starts whining about 'splitting the vote', it's all laid out very simply here https://www.northstandchat.com/showthread.php?368879-1st-2nd-choice-Referendum-Poll&highlight=Triggaaar

Whichever the majority vote for, do it properly.

If it is hard Brexit, then take the time and plan it and build the infrastructure to do it properly
If it is soft Brexit, do the deal and get on with it
If it is Remain then revoke Article 50

Then elect a Government and get on with running the country.