[Politics] Brexit

[dingodan]

thanks for your response. what examples of EU law do you have that have been bad for the UK?

The other thing about our law is surely most of that is past by Parliament , the same institution (well probably 75% of MPs) which originally felt the EU was ok as they were remainers. It is also the same institution which is now be vilified as being undemocratic and is being ignored/overridden by Boris & crew. So how does the future pan out, should Parliament have any role in the future if it can't be trusted not to work in the best interests of the population?

The vote opened a can of worms and unfortunately all that has happened in the last 3 years is we keep moving to a larger can of worms. Some people are & will profit from this situation but I don't see that as the 17.4 million who voted to leave just a small select group.

I can vote for members of parliament, if we don't like the things they propose when they want to get elected then we don't vote for them. Some MP's will get elected even if I don't like their policies, but that is democracy and I accept that. My job would be to argue in favor of what I believe in. The best argument, the most convincing case, wins.

The EU Commission are the only body which can propose legislation in the EU. EU Citizens can't vote them in, nor can they vote them out.

I don't need examples of bad EU law. The EU could pass fluffy bunny laws of love and wonder. Makes no difference. It's not the substance of the laws they pass, it's the process by which they are passed. Even if every EU law ever passed was good for everyone, they may not be tomorrow. If I was in charge of your bank account and cheque book, the fact that I only ever make purchases which benefit you and which you agree with, wouldn't make it Ok.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

It depends if you care about whether you are governed by the EU or by a UK government. EU law has supremecy while we are in the EU. There are other consequences of that to do with trade, finance, immigration etc, but for me the important matter of principle is who makes the law.

If you don't care about any of that, then no perhaps it won't effect you.

If you were one half of Trump's America you probably wouldn't feel particularly effected by his presidency. If you were the other half then the oppression and tyranny would probably be crushing.

All depends on what you believe in.

If EU law has supremacy whilst we're in the EU, why are we still spending pounds and pence, why are we still driving on the left?

I can vote for MPs but I can also vote for MEPs.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

[tweet]1167729471195164672[/tweet]

Blackmail from an unelected man in 10 Downing Street. He also sacked a Treasury adviser without the permission of her boss.

 

[dingodan]

If EU law has supremacy whilst we're in the EU, why are we still spending pounds and pence, why are we still driving on the left?

I can vote for MPs but I can also vote for MEPs.

The EU haven't passed a law requiring us to change the side of the road we drive on, nor have they passed a law requiring us to accept the Euro.

You can vote for MEP's. MEP's who cannot propose important legislation. Only the Commission can. MEP's can only vote it up or down. Maybe you don't care about that, I and many other people consider that to be "pretend" democracy. Not to mention that power is most effective at as local level as possible.

Try petitioning your local government, you might get somewhere. Try petitioning the UK government, it would be a challenge to make any difference, but the possibility to effect change does exist.

Now try petitioning the EU. You'd need to venture to another country just to get to the place that decisions are made, and your views would be competing with a population of 508.2 million of multiple nationalities and cultures each with their own competing interests. Good luck with that.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Looking forward to nobody taking to the streets at the 60-odd protests planned for tomorrow.

https://www.anothereurope.org/stopthecoup-join-the-nationwide-wave-of-protests/

Looney left? speeches by Mcdonald And abbott mixed with liberal extremists bunch of absolute bed wetters ,BBC news will be creaming themselves while the silent majority wait patiently for the 31st October 2019 LEAVE MEANS LEAVE
Regards
DF

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The EU haven't passed a law requiring us to change the side of the road we drive on, nor have they passed a law requiring us to accept the Euro.

You can vote for MEP's. MEP's who cannot propose important legislation. Only the Commission can. MEP's can only vote it up or down. Maybe you don't care about that, I and many other people consider that to be "pretend" democracy. Not to mention that power is most effective at as local level as possible.

Try petitioning your local government, you might get somewhere. Try petitioning the UK government, it would be a challenge to make any difference, but the possibility to effect change does exist.

Now try petitioning the EU. You'd need to venture to another country just to get to the place that decisions are made, and your views would be competing with a population of 508.2 million of multiple nationalities and cultures each with their own competing interests. Good luck with that.

The EU Commission is also voted in by the Heads of State, European Council and voted on by the European Parliament. 28 different members one from each country.

My local MP doesn't listen to anybody so petitioning locally is rubbish anyway. All I know is that in the last 40 years, life has improved due to regulations about pollution, blue flag beaches (I can remember when raw sewage went straight into the sea) and ease of travel. Our economy had rampant inflation and we were a mess. Employment rights, equal pay, maternity leave have all improved whilst in the EU.

 

[vegster]

Blackmail from an unelected man in 10 Downing Street. He also sacked a Treasury adviser without the permission of her boss.

Desperate times indeed, how did an unelected loon get to be running the government I wonder? And to think that Brexiteers main whinge is always about a " lack of accountability " in the EU!

I think that Boris has now " Spaffed " four Spads now..... It's very sinister.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Looking forward to nobody taking to the streets at the 60-odd protests planned for tomorrow.

https://www.anothereurope.org/stopthecoup-join-the-nationwide-wave-of-protests/

Check #stopthecoup
[tweet]1167744211480915968[/tweet]

[tweet]1167760921051238401[/tweet]

[tweet]1167764023498067970[/tweet]

[tweet]1167744413742829568[/tweet]

[tweet]1167770861169979392[/tweet]


Many many more around the country - We haven't long been back from our demo in Lewes.

 

[dingodan]

The EU Commission is also voted in by the Heads of State, European Council and voted on by the European Parliament. 28 different members one from each country.

My local MP doesn't listen to anybody so petitioning locally is rubbish anyway. All I know is that in the last 40 years, life has improved due to regulations about pollution, blue flag beaches (I can remember when raw sewage went straight into the sea) and ease of travel. Our economy had rampant inflation and we were a mess. Employment rights, equal pay, maternity leave have all improved whilst in the EU.

If a would-be dictator came along and offered you yet greater improvements in employment rights, environmental protections and a host of other policies, you'd be Ok with them taking over?

Does the principle of self determination and democracy come second to what are inherently temporary conditions, policies and promises? Very simple thinking IMO.

Our democracy isn't perfect, but it is always possible, if neccessary, to change it. Even the most benevolent dictator is still a dictator. No doubt when they were consolidating their power they were generous and kind. Without the proper checks and balances of true democratic accountability, that doesn't tend to last forever.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

If a would-be dictator came along and offered you yet greater improvements in employment rights, environmental protections and a host of other policies, you'd be Ok with them taking over?

Does the principle of self determination and democracy come second to what are inherently temporary conditions, policies and promises? Very simple thinking IMO.

Our democracy isn't perfect, but it is always possible, if neccessary, to change it. Even the most benevolent dictator is still a dictator. No doubt when they were consolidating their power they were generous and kind. Without the proper checks and balances of true democratic accountability, that doesn't tend to last forever.

Talking of dictators, why is unelected Dominic Cummings sacking people, and threatening MPs with deselection if they don't vote the right way next week?
You're right, our democracy is far from perfect.

The EU democracy is open and accountable, which is more than can be said for Westminster at this present time.

 

[Grombleton]

Looney left? speeches by Mcdonald And abbott mixed with liberal extremists bunch of absolute bed wetters ,BBC news will be creaming themselves while the silent majority wait patiently for the 31st October 2019 LEAVE MEANS LEAVE
Regards
DF

If you're the silent majority, why haven't you shut the **** up yet?

 

[Deleted member 2719]

Tell me, what credentials do you have that surpass those of Rory Stewart ? The ex military, Harvard professor, governer in Iraq who has walked from Turkey to Nepal and has an understanding of international development which is unsurpassed. You're not fit to lick the shit off his walking boots.

A one-inch punch that would snap his neck.

Does that qualify?

 

[dingodan]

Talking of dictators, why is unelected Dominic Cummings sacking people, and threatening MPs with deselection if they don't vote the right way next week?
You're right, our democracy is far from perfect.

The EU democracy is open and accountable, which is more than can be said for Westminster at this present time.

You not this dumb nobody could be. You know exactly what I'm saying, don't be disingenuous.

You don't care about democratic accountability so long as the person in charge is doing what you like. That's all well and good. Until people with political views the complete opposite of yours become those in power.

I look forward to what you will have to say when the right come to dominate EU governments, and through that domination become the dominant force on the EU Commission.

Won't happen soon though, maybe that's why you don't give a sh*t. If we end up staying in the EU it will be your kids or their kids who will be the ones who will pay the price for your fast and loose attitude to democracy.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

You not this dumb nobody could be. You know exactly what I'm saying, don't be disingenuous.

You don't care about democratic accountability so long as the person in charge is doing what you like. That's all well and good. Until people with political views the complete opposite of yours become those in power.

I look forward to what you will have to say when the right come to dominate EU governments, and through that domination become the dominant force on the EU Commission.

Won't happen soon though, maybe that's why you don't give a sh*t. If we end up staying in the EU it will be your kids or their kids who will be the ones who will pay the price for your fast and loose attitude to democracy.

My kids have thrived under the EU. My daughter has a very good job with Unilever and regularly flies to Rotterdam to their other office. My son is a station commander in the Fire service.
I am not dumb, so I thank you not to say so.
I haven't insulted you or your intelligence.

 

[shingle]

Looking forward to nobody taking to the streets at the 60-odd protests planned for tomorrow.

https://www.anothereurope.org/stopthecoup-join-the-nationwide-wave-of-protests/

Not very many people are there Notters. Even the London pic shows a crowd of only several thousand or so people down half of Whitehall. Looking forward to seeing some wide angle shots rather than the selective views of the twitterati.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Looney left? speeches by Mcdonald And abbott mixed with liberal extremists bunch of absolute bed wetters ,BBC news will be creaming themselves while the silent majority wait patiently for the 31st October 2019 LEAVE MEANS LEAVE
Regards
DF

I think yours are the funniest posts on here tell me your secret, is it some sort of lottery where you pick every other word from the page 2 of the Daily Mail or perhaps the The Sun?

 

[dingodan]

My kids have thrived under the EU. My daughter has a very good job with Unilever and regularly flies to Rotterdam to their other office. My son is a station commander in the Fire service.
I am not dumb, so I thank you not to say so.
I haven't insulted you or your intelligence.

You have a great way of ignoring the salient point.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

You have a great way of ignoring the salient point.

I don't debate with people who call me dumb.

 

[dingodan]

I don't debate with people who call me dumb.

I didn't call you dumb, I said you weren't dumb.

I said you were disingenuous, which you definately are.

 

[melias shoes]

Desperate times indeed, how did an unelected loon get to be running the government I wonder?

Brown??