[Politics] Brexit

[Thunder Bolt]

This Tory won't be standing again.

[tweet]1167120673053040640[/tweet]

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Good old Brendan telling it like it is ..

This morning, a petition demanding ‘Do not prorogue Parliament’ is doing the rounds. At the time of writing, more than 1.4 million people have signed it. Remainers are very excited. They’re holding the petition up as proof of a mass outpouring of democratic disdain for Boris Johnson’s decision to suspend Parliament for a few more days than is normal. It is no such thing. It looks more like yet another middle-class hissy fit against Brexit and the people who voted for it.

As the petition map demonstrates, the signatories are strikingly concentrated in certain parts of the country, especially the leafy, super-middle-class bits of southern England. There are very high numbers of signatures from Brighton, Hove, Oxfordshire and Cambridgeshire; and in London from Islington, Dulwich, Wood Green, Hackney, Richmond and Twickenham.

All of these areas have large numbers of working-class and poor inhabitants, of course. But they are also known, correctly, as the heartlands of the metropolitan middle classes. Some of the parts of London in which people have enthusiastically embraced the petition are especially posh: Dulwich, Richmond, Twickenham.

Far from being an expression of national fury with Boris’s proroguing plans, the petition strikingly confirms the massive class-based and geographical divides over Brexit. So where, at the time of writing, 7.4 per cent of voters in Caroline Lucas’s Brighton Pavilion constituency have signed this anti-Boris, anti-proroguing petition, just 0.6 per cent of constituents in Doncaster North have signed it.

So far, in Islington 6.3 per cent of constituents have signed; in Dulwich, it’s 6.1 per cent; in Richmond, it’s five per cent. But in Rochdale, it’s 0.7 per cent; in Boston and Skegness, it’s 0.5 per cent; in Merthyr Tydfil it’s 0.8 per cent; in Dagenham it’s 0.5 per cent.

And so on and so on. The posher the area, the more likely people are to have signed. The more working-class the area, the more likely people are to have thought to themselves: ‘Sod that.’

And it isn’t hard to see why, because for all the claims that this is a pro-democracy petition, it is nothing of the kind. Take a look at the wording of the petition. It is quite extraordinary. It says:

‘Parliament must not be prorogued or dissolved unless and until the Article 50 period has been sufficiently extended or the UK’s intention to withdraw from the EU has been cancelled.’ (My emphasis.)

Take that in. This petition isn’t even against the proroguing of Parliament as such — it is only against the proroguing of Parliament by Boris Johnson for the purpose of forcing Brexit through. The petition explicitly says that proroguing or dissolving Parliament is fine once Brexit has either been kicked into the long grass (through extending Article 50) or destroyed entirely (through cancellation).

This is in keeping with the broader hypocritical hysteria over Boris’s plans to suspend Parliament for a few more days than normal. The furious reaction against Boris is not driven by a desire to defend democracy, whether of the parliamentary or any other variety. Rather, it is driven by anger at the fact that MPs, the majority of whom are Remainers, will be temporarily robbed of the ability to continue thwarting and potentially even killing Brexit. They rage against Boris for being anti-democratic on the basis that he is making it more difficult for anti-Brexit MPs to frustrate the largest act of democracy in the history of this country — you couldn’t make it up.

Just imagine what is going through the minds of people around the country, outside of the woke, Brexitphobic bubbles in the south that so many politicos and commentators inhabit. Imagine what they think as they watch MPs who have spent three years trying to frustrate the democratic will suddenly present themselves as defenders of democracy against Boris the ‘tinpot dictator’. Imagine what they think as they see footage of middle-class people having a picnic, complete with olives and bubbly, in the middle of yesterday’s protest against proroguing.

This petition gives us a glimpse of what they think. From South Wales to the Midlands, from the North West to Essex, so many people must be looking upon the metropolitan elites that loathe Brexit as eejits, hypocrites and liars.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/08/the-rage-against-boris/

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Been away for a couple of days, haven't missed anything have I ....

I've been away and enjoyed taking a break from thinking about this mess or following the thread....

Coincidence? .... shirley not.

 

[Lever]

Coincidence? .... shirley not.

What are you implying 'Bringer of truth'? Obviously you have been diligently following the thread....
No other hobbies?
Nothing to say about impending UK disintegration or parliamentary coups? Or are they less important to you?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

She's been absolutely correct about what would happen on the last two 'leaving the EU' dates whilst you have been completely wrong. You don't think you may be jumping the gun a little here, in your excitement

So you accept prorogue was never on your options list ? How strange, caught out again !

 

[WATFORD zero]

Coincidence? .... shirley not.

Obviously a coincidence as I was on here 2 days ago asking you this

So which are you supporting today ?

The undefinable 'good deal'
or
The unimplementable 'no deal'

Which, it seems that, to date, you are totally unable to answer. (Or maybe choose not to after your last attempt)

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

That is absolute rubbish. If May had played it better right from the very start and actually attempted to talk to and listen to other people and other parties instead of disappearing up her own backside and concentrating on her own party unity rather than anything else (so it seems) we might have come out of this with something half sensible and without a country being as utterly divided as it is now.

Cameron -who is a Tory, if you hadn't noticed - started it off with a half-cock and badly organised referendum which he failed to campaign properly for.
People like Johnson and Gove - both Tories, I believe - lied constantly to the country to the campaign. There are people still naively believing that there will be £350,000,000 a minute (slight exaggeration) to spend on the NHS, when the real figure paid to the EU was actually about a third of that.
May - a Tory - made no attempt to reach out to anyone to bring the country together to sort it out - but pandered to the extremes on the edge of her party and beyond.
And now Johnson - a Tory - is shafting the notion of Parliamentary Democracy to try and get something done. (I hate what he is doing, but would concede that it might resolve it, even if I am likely violently to disagree with what results.

It is the Tory Party which has made a right royal mess of it from beginning to end. Knowing how to do things my ar5e.

It was even the Tories who created the conditions through austerity which meant that people wanted something to protest against, when the "What did Europe ever do for us?" question would be answered if only they would look around them and notice the millions of £s which have been spent in deprived areas which is what the Social Fund concentrates on.

That’s your view. I don’t think it’s ‘absolute rubbish’ but I do disagree with it.

 

[WATFORD zero]

So you accept prorogue was never on your options list ? How strange, caught out again !

Yep, caught out completely

Here are a number of other parliamentary procedures and terms which do not represent a conclusion to this Brexit clusterf***

Abstain, Adjourn sine die, Assembly, Consensus, Constitution, Decorum, Incidental Motions, Objection, Plurality, Precedence of motion, Privileged motions

Funnily enough, they didn't make it onto my list of options for a conclusion to Brexit either. I can't imagine why



Still no idea what the 'good deal' that the leave campaign sold you, consists of though

 

[Dorset Seagull]

Whatever happens, Brexit - and conversations around our membership of the EU - are going to drag on for the rest of our lives. No question whatsoever about that.

I've already accepted this, I recommend for the sake of your mental health that you do so too.

Any who are so tired and frustrated at endless Brexit chat that they are happy to support the current course of events "so everyone shuts up about it finally" have absolutely no idea what is coming.

Don't worry about my mental health as I stopped worrying about Brexit a long time ago. The goons will decide the outcome not us plebs

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

thought that was already said, the mis-representation of information to "prove" one view creates a reaction against it.

So the official evidence of that 54% voted for parties whose manifestos oppose no-deal is mis-representation?

 

[theonlymikey]

Good old Brendan telling it like it is ..

This morning, a petition demanding ‘Do not prorogue Parliament’ is doing the rounds. At the time of writing, more than 1.4 million people have signed it. Remainers are very excited. They’re holding the petition up as proof of a mass outpouring of democratic disdain for Boris Johnson’s decision to suspend Parliament for a few more days than is normal. It is no such thing. It looks more like yet another middle-class hissy fit against Brexit and the people who voted for it.

As the petition map demonstrates, the signatories are strikingly concentrated in certain parts of the country, especially the leafy, super-middle-class bits of southern England. There are very high numbers of signatures from Brighton, Hove, Oxfordshire and Cambridgeshire; and in London from Islington, Dulwich, Wood Green, Hackney, Richmond and Twickenham.

All of these areas have large numbers of working-class and poor inhabitants, of course. But they are also known, correctly, as the heartlands of the metropolitan middle classes. Some of the parts of London in which people have enthusiastically embraced the petition are especially posh: Dulwich, Richmond, Twickenham.

Far from being an expression of national fury with Boris’s proroguing plans, the petition strikingly confirms the massive class-based and geographical divides over Brexit. So where, at the time of writing, 7.4 per cent of voters in Caroline Lucas’s Brighton Pavilion constituency have signed this anti-Boris, anti-proroguing petition, just 0.6 per cent of constituents in Doncaster North have signed it.

So far, in Islington 6.3 per cent of constituents have signed; in Dulwich, it’s 6.1 per cent; in Richmond, it’s five per cent. But in Rochdale, it’s 0.7 per cent; in Boston and Skegness, it’s 0.5 per cent; in Merthyr Tydfil it’s 0.8 per cent; in Dagenham it’s 0.5 per cent.

And so on and so on. The posher the area, the more likely people are to have signed. The more working-class the area, the more likely people are to have thought to themselves: ‘Sod that.’

And it isn’t hard to see why, because for all the claims that this is a pro-democracy petition, it is nothing of the kind. Take a look at the wording of the petition. It is quite extraordinary. It says:

‘Parliament must not be prorogued or dissolved unless and until the Article 50 period has been sufficiently extended or the UK’s intention to withdraw from the EU has been cancelled.’ (My emphasis.)

Take that in. This petition isn’t even against the proroguing of Parliament as such — it is only against the proroguing of Parliament by Boris Johnson for the purpose of forcing Brexit through. The petition explicitly says that proroguing or dissolving Parliament is fine once Brexit has either been kicked into the long grass (through extending Article 50) or destroyed entirely (through cancellation).

This is in keeping with the broader hypocritical hysteria over Boris’s plans to suspend Parliament for a few more days than normal. The furious reaction against Boris is not driven by a desire to defend democracy, whether of the parliamentary or any other variety. Rather, it is driven by anger at the fact that MPs, the majority of whom are Remainers, will be temporarily robbed of the ability to continue thwarting and potentially even killing Brexit. They rage against Boris for being anti-democratic on the basis that he is making it more difficult for anti-Brexit MPs to frustrate the largest act of democracy in the history of this country — you couldn’t make it up.

Just imagine what is going through the minds of people around the country, outside of the woke, Brexitphobic bubbles in the south that so many politicos and commentators inhabit. Imagine what they think as they watch MPs who have spent three years trying to frustrate the democratic will suddenly present themselves as defenders of democracy against Boris the ‘tinpot dictator’. Imagine what they think as they see footage of middle-class people having a picnic, complete with olives and bubbly, in the middle of yesterday’s protest against proroguing.

This petition gives us a glimpse of what they think. From South Wales to the Midlands, from the North West to Essex, so many people must be looking upon the metropolitan elites that loathe Brexit as eejits, hypocrites and liars.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/08/the-rage-against-boris/

Very selective. A few of the most impoverished parts of the UK in the north east have around 2% signed.





Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

 

[WATFORD zero]

Don't worry about my mental health as I stopped worrying about Brexit a long time ago. The goons will decide the outcome not us plebs

Don't forget that very nearly half the electorate (or plebs, if you prefer) are more stupid than the average person.

I'm not sure I would want them defining my future

 

[beorhthelm]

So the official evidence of that 54% voted for parties whose manifestos oppose no-deal is mis-representation?

no, if thats all thats claimed. taking the same number to say 54% of voters voted for soft brexit, or apportioning voters to remain to conclude 50% support remain is. anyway, i think we agreed some from of leave is still the consensus of the public.

 

[Juan Albion]

no, if thats all thats claimed. taking the same number to say 54% of voters voted for soft brexit, or apportioning voters to remain to conclude 50% support remain is. anyway, i think we agreed some from of leave is still the consensus of the public.

There's an easy way to find out.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

.

Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

PA news agency has filed this report from the Court of Session in Edinburgh, where a cross-party group of around 70 MPs and peers have launched emergency legal action in a bid to stop Boris Johnson proroguing parliament:

Aidan O'Neill QC, representing the petitioners, said the prorogation was "unprecedented" and the petitioners are invoking the court's "constitutional jurisdiction."

He said: "Prorogation is being used to create something which is irreversible, that the UK will be made to leave the EU deal or no deal, do or die, and Parliament is being prevented by abuse of the power of prorogation from doing anything about it.

"There are no precedents for the abuse of prorogation.

"The power of prorogation is not one which is unlimited or unfettered but has to be used in accordance with public trust."

Mr O'Neill said the Queen should be obliged to recall the prorogation order if it turned out to be based on an error of law.

He said: "If the court is satisfied that the advice to the sovereign given yesterday that Parliament be prorogued is in fact found to be an abuse of power based on an error of law, then there should be an obligation on the sovereign to recall that order of prorogation because the sovereign is not above the law."

Before yesterday's announcement, the group had already filed a petition at the Court of Session in an effort to stop Johnson from being able to prorogue parliament.

Today's hearing is to seek an interim edict to stop the black the PM's request to suspend parliament before the full case is heard on Friday, 6 September.

The case is being heard by Lord Doherty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn3eZn8tSpc
regards
DM

 

[pastafarian]

Please do not try and pin the blame on Remainers. If it wasn't for the ERG, May would have got her deal through and we would be out of the EU wef 31st March 2019.

Open your eyes and stop making excuses.

Not true

True. It was the ERG - hardline Brexiters who stopped it by opposing Theresa May.
.

Still not true

The ERG is a pooled service organisation for Conservative MPs
Even if ALL the Tory ERG MPs had supported the deal they alone would not have facilitated the deal passing. Not all Tory MPs are ERG. Looking up the Tory individuals who voted against the deal will confirm to you your numbers are wrong and your statement is incorrect.

 

[pastafarian]

I tried to point out that the Settlement scheme isn't working properly a few days ago, but was sneered at and told it was so easy, and nobody had been rejected even when I said I knew my friend in Shoreham had problems.
I was even accused of making up this friend because I wouldn't post personal details about her.

You were not asked to post personal details about her. You have previously revealed details about her status yourself, you were simply asked for an update on the status of her own application, saying what the current status of her application is (still ongoing with further information required or granted pre-settled status or granted settled status) is not providing personal details. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

Yes, and Patel is trying to do away with the deadline of December 2020, by saying No Deal means a cut off on 31st October.
No wonder people are heartbroken. This is people's lives they are playing 'games' with.

Home Office 19th AUG

"There have been reports in media and on social media regarding the rights of EU citizens resident in the UK after we leave the European Union.
Some inaccurate reporting has suggested that, once freedom of movement ends after Brexit, EU citizens resident in the UK will be left in “legal limbo”.
However, EU citizens and their families are welcome to stay and there are no changes to the deadline to apply to the EU Settlement Scheme.
This scheme covers all EU citizens and their families living in the UK by 31 October, and EU citizens have until at least 31 December 2020 to apply
Here is a short explainer:……."

https://homeofficemedia.blog.gov.uk/2019/08/19/media-factsheet-eu-citizens-and-freedom-of-movement/

Think they are talking about people like you

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Very selective. A few of the most impoverished parts of the UK in the north east have around 2% signed.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Even Impovershied parts of the northeast probably have pockets of woke, Brexitphobic metropolitan elite types constantly sneering at and looking down on the gullible thickies .... your new besties Mikey.

 

[pastafarian]

No Deal makes re-entry a lot more likely.

Don’t fret champ. Any future decision to Rejoin the EU given by referendum can simply be ignored and we stay OUT of the EU instead. Those are the new rules now (set by remoaners).
Enjoy what you preach.