[Politics] Brexit

[Juan Albion]

Is the fact that leave won that's caused a mess, or those who were on the losing side kicking up such a fuss since they lost that's making it more of a mess than it should be...?

It's the fact that something so big has no clear mandate, obviously. That's why sensible countries require a supermajority for anything resembling a constitution change.

They could even have gone one step further and said there had to be a supermajority, a minimum turnout, and a majority of the constituent parts of the UK if they really wanted to keep the UK together - Nomad would love that, I'm sure.

An Englishman, a Scotsman and an Irishman walk into a bar … The Englishman wanted to go, so they all had to leave.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Anyway, back to my question? Do you think your 50%+1 has made things work well? Still waiting for you to answer that.

It's like talking to your old Gran that forgets things... I can only refer to: https://www.northstandchat.com/show...-London-town&p=8830897&viewfull=1#post8830897

I'm sorry basic politics escapes you and you can only resort to stupid comments.

You can't help yourself can you, it's almost like tourettes.

Anyway, bored and going to bed, seems surreal someone that doesn't even live in this country and doesn't pay towards the NHS thinks they can come home the moment they get ill. I think it's called tourist treatment. And has a view on the EU when it really has nothing to do with them. Good night.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

It's the fact that something so big has no clear mandate, obviously. That's why sensible countries require a supermajority for anything resembling a constitution change.

Name them, because nobody else has triggered Article 50. So... name them.

 

[Juan Albion]

It's like talking to your old Gran that forgets things... I can only refer to: https://www.northstandchat.com/show...-London-town&p=8830897&viewfull=1#post8830897



You can't help yourself can you, it's almost like tourettes.

Anyway, bored and going to bed, seems surreal someone that doesn't even live in this country and doesn't pay towards the NHS thinks they can come home the moment they get ill. I think it's called tourist treatment. And has a view on the EU when it really has nothing to do with them. Good night.

Why haven't I paid into the NHS? I thought I had for years. Silly me. And I don't need to come home to get treatment, and I wouldn't be immediately eligible (Isomething else you got wrong), I also pay in here in Canada so I'm doubly covered, thanks.

So you do actually believe in two classes of British citizen, bravo. I guess you think you are a better Brit than me.

 

[Juan Albion]

Name them, because nobody else has triggered Article 50. So... name them.

Seriously? You think "anything resembling a constitutional change" only equals Brexit? Good grief, no wonder you don't get this simple stuff.

Places that have required supermajorities for anything resembling constitutional changes. Hmm, let me think. The US does for all constitutional changes. And you won't like this: the EU does. India does. Canada does. Spain does. All the states of the former Yugoslavia required a supermajority for independence. etc etc

Oh, and the UK does. The House of Commons can only be dissolved if two thirds of the MPs vote in favour. Well, well, fancy that.

As I said, basic politics.

 

[shingle]

Anti Democratic To$$ers.

However, this chap, now departed, speaking sense as he often did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQY2CHx4d3U

 

[shingle]

oh yeah, and him

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8cF93B58Vw

 

[StonehamPark]

No person could have made any reasonable judgement back in 2016, without seeing any of the cards on the table.
We now have a much better and clearer idea of what we may be facing if we were to leave the European Union.

It's only logical that a sizeable number of 'leave' voters will have changed their stance.
I'm curious as to how many that would be.

 

[Stat Brother]

No person could have made any reasonable judgement back in 2016, without seeing any of the cards on the table.
We now have a much better and clearer idea of what we may be facing if we were to leave the European Union.

It's only logical that a sizeable number of 'leave' voters will have changed their stance.
I'm curious as to how many that would be.

There's no point being coy about it:-

Also a sizable number of Leave votes would have died being replaced by more Remain votes who were 15/16 at the time.


Oh and while were on that subject, some of you might find this interesting (one of you won't)

An estimated 46.8 million people were registered to vote at the June 2017 UK Parliamentary general election.

https://www.electoralcommission.org...ion-2017/2-the-size-of-the-electoral-register


I'm not entirely sure why one poster believes EVERYBODY in the UK is entitled to vote.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Someone is certainly getting a little confused. Maybe you are new to this thread so I'll give you an explanation of some of the terminology used.

If someone wants to revoke Article 50, stay in the EU and forget leaving completely - They have traditionally been known as REMAINERS

If someone wants to revoke Article 50, to look at alternatives and then re-invoke at a later date - They have traditionally been known as LEAVERS

Hope this has cleared it up for you, and I think if you stick with this tradition you may find it less confusing

I was in central London today for the theatre, where I witnessed colossal crowds, the trains from Sussex this morning were packed with folk like Sardines. Looked all good natured.

Well I didn't go up to show "my support". I've been to a number of these things to observe, the most most surreal being the countryside alliance one.

What I observed today was hundreds and hundreds and thousands of "ordinary" people. Most striking was the elderly, somewhat smashing away the argument that anyone over a certain age would definitely vote out.

I expected a coalition of rainbow flags, the socialist worker and those using the day to promote their own causes, "women for the EU", "vegans against Brexit" etc...

But I didn't. Just ordinary people, the "losers", the "moaners", the frankly forgotten by the Political Class. How ironic.

It led me to conclusion that many people voted Brexit not to make to own lives better, but simply to make others lives worse in some form of demented revenge. Against what ?

If you consider yourself a patriot (which I do), watch Hestletine's speech on You Tube. Awesome.

Yeah it was a bit of a mix of Coldplay and the Waitrose shopper, Brexit I'm afraid is a bit of a class war

The 48% have been hung out to dry, .

I've seen a number of posts recently with similar sentiments to these. It's ironic because you now know what it's been like for the last 40 years for those of us who didn't believe being in the EEC/EU was a good thing. Given both mainstream parties were pro-EU ( excluding Labour under Foot for a very brief time ) we had no way of voting for an anti-EU party that would make any difference. And now the remainers think they've been forgotten ..... well welcome to the club !

 

[Mellotron]

No, you really have nothing to argue so you patronise. You don't live in this country but still want to rip us for pensions and NHS and you want to tell us how we live our lives. You suggest that 41% v 59% is a defeat for those wanting out. How about the shoe being on the other foot and 60% have to vote to stay in? Would that work too? 41% vote out and remain lose. Your patronising is beyond the pale. Well done.

Supermajorities being needed to effect a change in referendums is very, very common.

And yes, a lot of people DID complain about it at the time.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

She's an absolute sweetie.

Assuming those posts were real, abusing and threatening a 77 old lady is cowardly and disgusting. Surely you agree?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It's the fact that something so big has no clear mandate, obviously. That's why sensible countries require a supermajority for anything resembling a constitution change..

Name them, because nobody else has triggered Article 50. So... name them.

Seriously? You think "anything resembling a constitutional change" only equals Brexit? Good grief, no wonder you don't get this simple stuff.

Places that have required supermajorities for anything resembling constitutional changes. Hmm, let me think. The US does for all constitutional changes. And you won't like this: the EU does. India does. Canada does. Spain does. All the states of the former Yugoslavia required a supermajority for independence. etc etc

Oh, and the UK does. The House of Commons can only be dissolved if two thirds of the MPs vote in favour. Well, well, fancy that.

As I said, basic politics.

[MENTION=17215]Sussex Nomad[/MENTION], stop. You’re being totally owned.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

no-one complained then.

And that is the key point ..... not a single remainer as far as I remember complained about the terms of the referendum ...... until they'd lost !

 

[HalfaSeatOn]

I voted leave on some notion of localism, emotional sway of peers and a kick up the rear to politicians. Democracy is only as good as the level of wisdom applied and I feel wiser in 2019 than 2016. I for one would be happy for a second referendum.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

No person could have made any reasonable judgement back in 2016, without seeing any of the cards on the table.
We now have a much better and clearer idea of what we may be facing if we were to leave the European Union.

It's only logical that a sizeable number of 'leave' voters will have changed their stance.
I'm curious as to how many that would be.

Not in this neck of the woods, I'm afraid, my friend! Trenches have been dug and they ain't coming out of them...………………..Brings to mind the (probably wrongly attributed) quote of JM Keynes who knew quite a bit about economics: "when the facts change, I change my mind" which contrasts rather dramatically with our Brexiteer chums who tend towards economic illiteracy and whose homespun version of the above is more like "when the facts change, I dig in even more".

 

[nicko31]

Heseltine yesterday, what speech.

13 minutes of common sense, take a bow...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8oWrF2CXF8&feature=youtu.be

 

[Baldseagull]

https://www.euractiv.com/section/po...having-a-single-seat-for-european-parliament/

Everyone knows this is an expensive waste of time and money, but France sees it as a perk of membership as a lot of that money ends up in it's economy. I would love for it to stop, everyone outside France would love for it to stop, but there it is, this is the power of veto, a power we have on many areas of policy. France will let it go, but it will want something decent in return, maybe some of our rebate would do the trick, would you give some of that up?

 

[GrizzlingGammon]

Is your calculator broken too?
https://percentagecalculator.net/

All you've done here is show that you can't work out a percentage of a number.

 

[Baldseagull]

Up to a point. People voted for a range of reasons on both sides as they do for any election but the broad theme of Remain was status quo, economic priority and the broad theme for leave was take back control, sovereignty. Unfortunately, many remainers think they should get a second prize of defining leave through their priorities critically undermining leave priorities ... leaving both sides p*ssed off.

You think all those that wanted to remain should have no say in how we leave? That is not democracy, and would exclude 2/3rds of the Parliament you wanted to hand more sovereignty to. There is no version of Brexit that matches the promises of the leave campaign, you were always going to be disappointed, it is not the fault of people who were saying all along that it was bullshit, that it is bullshit.