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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

  • Total voters
    1,083


pastafarian

pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
WATFORD zero said:
I guess we will have to take your word for it since you won't tell anyone what you want :shrug:
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Have said what I want many times, here is a thread for you to read.
http://www.northstandchat.com/showt...down-to-11PM-GMT-on-Friday-29th-of-March-2019
Equally happy for you to just to take my word on it and move on if you can.

Have another go though, since you say you have one and can predict the future, give your crystal ball another rub and make an actual prediction of will we Leave the EU with a deal or leave without a deal.
I expect you will ignore this question again like most put to you.
 






dingodan

dingodan

New member
Feb 16, 2011
10,080
fanseagull said:
... then why do you call the vote as 'the will of the people' when it was the will of 52% of the people. The referendum outcome must be respected - and those who feel disenfranchised by it need some solid reassurances.

By triggering article 50, apparently doing little for a couple of years and then delaying the 'meaningful vote' the government has ensured that we are running out of time to bring harmony back to a divided nation. In my opinion, we need more time and so should 'stop the clock' and look for ways forward together.

Either that or we will be a fractured nation for maybe generations to come.

The way things are, a substantial number of people are likely to be very, very angry whatever happens and it is important to address that..... No good just expressing your own partisan anger - the final decision has massive implications for us and our children - too important for democracy to simply stop now.
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When you take part in a vote, implicit in doing that is that you will respect and accept the outcome. That's all there is too it.

People voted to leave the EU. You can't just say now that we should try to please everyone and be both in and both out.

Ask yourself, if remain had won would you be calling for us to "leave to some extent" in order to reassure those people who voted leave but lost the vote? I doubt it.
 




dingodan

dingodan

New member
Feb 16, 2011
10,080
fanseagull said:
But a lot of us want to ensure that our children are not losers and believe that following your chosen path will make them so. No good trying to take the moral high ground on that matter. On your way.
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So if the vote had been 90% leave, 10% remain, you would still be fighting it then. Because there isn't anything which would stop you from wanting to ensure that your children are not losers, if that's what you believe will happen.

Which makes everything you've said about how close it was and how the large minority deserve to be listened to kind of disingenuous really doesn't it.
 




pastafarian

pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
fanseagull said:
I suspect the divisions will continue to deepen. We first endured a torrent of Brexit triumphalism, followed by pointless exchanges of increasingly unpleasant name-calling, conflicting data and personal anecdotes. As far as I can see, no one on here has budged an inch over the past couple of years. Some contributions have come close to hysterical. Minds are locked and bolted.
.
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Why should Leavers have to budge at all?.The referendum to Leave the EU was won.We should Leave the EU(not remain) There is no need to continue arguing pre referendum discussions, Leavers do not need to defend their vote and do not need to justify their reasonings to the likes of you or anyone else, but this is what the moaners have insisted on since the result was announced. Your vote was NOT more important than anyone else`s to somehow give you the misguided belief those that disagree with you should be subject to extra scrutiny.

The divisiveness however is easy to remedy and bring to an end. It is 100% the fault of the losers. Stop the whining about losing a democratic vote and insisting Brexit must be stopped because some people cant stand having their opinions not yielded to, stop trying to wreck democratic accountability with the absurd thinking of re-running an IN/OUT referendum or supporting parliament simply ignoring the vote by revoking Article 50 all together.
Accept the vote to Leave must be honoured and we must Leave the European Union.
This is the pathway to end the divisiveness you seek.

fanseagull said:
What can you do when someone writes 'I have nothing but contempt for your belief and it should always be mocked'? That's the end of debate and continuation of poison.
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You could start by trying to understand why even questioning if honouring a democratic vote is a good thing to do or a way forward would be seen as a contemptuous belief. If you cant even fathom that then you deserve all the mockery coming your direction. The bog standard bar of democracy is set at the default of honouring a democratic vote even if you personally don’t agree with it. This isn’t rocket science. Its basic democracy 1.0.
 


Baker lite

Baker lite

Banned
Mar 16, 2017
6,309
in my house
Baldseagull said:
On the 29th March 2019, it is highly probable that there will be more people that voted Remain than Leave, still drawing breath. So whose will should we be enacting on that day?
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Are you seriously expecting people to take this seriously?Really, is this the way things work in your mind,? Give me strength...
On our way.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 


dingodan

dingodan

New member
Feb 16, 2011
10,080
Baldseagull said:
On the 29th March 2019, it is highly probable that there will be more people that voted Remain than Leave, still drawing breath. So whose will should we be enacting on that day?
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https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1070513/Brexit-news-Channel-4-debate-Jon-Snow-inbetweeners-Leave

A BREXIT debate with young British voters on Channel 4 News backfired on host Jon Snow when he appeared surprised at the realisation "an interesting number" of his audience was made out of Brexit supporters.

The Channel 4 News host appeared surprised during the Brexit Inbetweeners debate in Leeds when he realised the room was filled with a high number of Brexit supporters. The debate was organised to give voice to 18 to 20 years old who did not have a vote in the 2016 Referendum on the basis 16-years-olds should be given the right to vote in the UK. But viewers claimed the show "backfired" on the news host when many of the young participants expressed their views in favour of leaving the EU and against a second referendum.

After a quick rise of hands showing how the young voters stood on Brexit, Jon Snow said: “Okay, okay. Well, there’s an interesting number of Leavers.

“Clearly the Remainers don’t feel very strong-voiced tonight.”
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pastafarian

pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
Driver8 said:
Parliament are getting ready to take back control and I don’t think you are going to like it very much.
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Some in parliament are trying their hardest to wreck Brexit and ignore and overturn a democratic vote .
You really shouldn’t like it either.
 




Green Cross Code Man

Green Cross Code Man

Wunt be druv
Mar 30, 2006
19,736
Eastbourne
fanseagull said:
...assume you know this....
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017
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And you have highlighted just why referenda are an awful way to decide something. Because unlike a GE, unless the vote is overwhelming in favour of one side, then you get the situation that we are in now, the biggest moan in history. So, no, on that issue I don't agree with Farage but I would have liked an election fought on the principle of leaving the EU.
 






Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,986
Crawley
dingodan said:
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1070513/Brexit-news-Channel-4-debate-Jon-Snow-inbetweeners-Leave
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Not quite relevant to the point I made, those people didn't vote, of those that did, more Remainers will be alive than Leavers on 29th March.
If you are interested in the way those young people in your link would Vote, we have to have a referendum to ask them don't we?
I find it unjust that the opinion of several Million young voters counts for nothing, and the opinion of a couple of million dead voters is driving the thing.
 


Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,986
Crawley
pastafarian said:
Some in parliament are trying their hardest to wreck Brexit and ignore and overturn a democratic vote .
You really shouldn’t like it either.
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No one is ignoring it though are they, it is all they are bloody talking about. As for overturning a democratic vote, if it is done with a democratic vote, then it is just the latest and most up to date will of the people, which I am sure, that you as a democrat, are interested in implementing.
 






pastafarian

pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
Baldseagull said:
No one is ignoring it though are they, it is all they are bloody talking about. As for overturning a democratic vote, if it is done with a democratic vote, then it is just the latest and most up to date will of the people, which I am sure, that you as a democrat, are interested in implementing.
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I am not interested in you “implementing” a re-run, do it again because we didn’t like the first result vote before the original vote can be finalised and implemented after due process. It is not “more democracy” to ignore a decision and overturn it before it can be finalised and concluded.
You wouldn’t contemplate demanding an election was re-done again before a clear winner had the chance to conclude matters, form a government and take up residence in No.10………or maybe you have reached such rock bottom you now would.
If you want another go campaign to rejoin after the democratic vote has been honoured and we have left the EU. Your democratic deficit is astounding and you cant even recognise it.
 


PILTDOWN MAN

PILTDOWN MAN

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 15, 2004
18,722
Hurst Green
Looking forwards to finding out if I've still got a job in a few months, happy times.
 


Thunder Bolt

Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Aug 18, 2009
65,588
Beside the seaside, beside the sea
dingodan said:
I didn't say they did.

What are you saying? That the minority who lost a vote should still have their way? Would you be saying the same thing if the result had gone the other way?

45% of Scots voted to leave the UK. You don't hear much about that today, frankly because they are honourable enough to accept the result of a vote, even one which they lost.

In the general election in 2017 the Convervatives won 42% of the vote. Labour 40%. Do you hear any labour voters crying foul because they are still people and the vote was won by 2%?

This lack of understanding what a vote is and how it works is a new thing, and apparently only something people who want to remain in the EU suffer from. I think it's safe to say that it's also only been brought on by losing the vote. I find it pretty shameful to be honest.
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There is the business of illegal spending and criminal activities to be investigated. The fact that many people were denied a vote who are now affected by Theresa May trying to stop Freedom of movement. A realisation some who voted leave didn't realise would affect them ie one Yorkshireman who was planning to retire to Spain, & had no idea Brexit would change that.
Many voters were denied a vote, postal votes arrived late.

Article 50 should be revoked now. A deal should be thrashed out, voted on so everyone knows what they ate voting for, and then the government will have their mandate, instead of the unholy mess of lies and deceit at the moment.
 




C

cunning fergus

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2009
4,747




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