[Misc] Comparable jobs, equal pay.

[The Clamp]

Is the work comparable? I've worked both in shops and in warehouses over the years and without a shadow of a doubt warehouse work is far harder.
And the Birmingham council, cleaning and cooking as hard as road work and bin collecting? I don't know, but the fact that the last two are performed outside whatever the weather would lead me to think they are harder?

I suppose they are arguing the work is of equal value but the harder more gruelling the work the better you should be paid.
Do men working inside the shop get more money for the same job? That would be unfair obviously.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42968342

 

[beorhthelm]

clearly the roles are not directly comparable, but such matters are academic for this issue. iirc the problem for Birmingham (and other councils, public sector employers?), was their reliance on pay bands with little distinction between actual roles. this confuses the concepts around comparable when the organisation gives two roles the same grading, then pays one group at different rate to the other within the band. dont know if this applies to Tesco, they would probably have to show that women in warehouse roles or men in checkout roles are paid equally.

 

[AmexRuislip]

I think that if the male / female job pay should always be equal, no matter what the job is.
Surely that is the right thing to do, given the modern world we are living in.
Where I work, we have a mixture of male/ female drivers, all doing the same tasks and all getting the same wage.

 

[Baldseagull]

Perhaps the ladies should apply for jobs in the warehouse? The rates of pay for in store work I would guess are comparable to other retail jobs, and the warehouse work comparable to other warehouse work.
Biggest unfair pay difference between similar roles is in TFL, between Tube drivers and Bus drivers. I would say Bus drivers have it harder, public facing, negotiating traffic, route alterations, tourist advice, cash handling, compared to stop, open doors, close doors, and go. Bus drivers get half a Tube drivers salary.

 

[happypig]

The argument is not that shop work is as equally physically demanding as warehouse work but that the contribution to the company is the same. Of course there are differences, warehouse workers may have to do more heavy lifting and operate heavy machinery such as fork lifts etc but shop workers, have to use customer facing skills. They may have to deal with conflict and confrontation, threats of or even actual, physical violence.

It's certainly interesting and I shall be following it to see what the court decides.

 

[Triggaaar]

I think that if the male / female job pay should always be equal, no matter what the job is.
Surely that is the right thing to do, given the modern world we are living in.
Where I work, we have a mixture of male/ female drivers, all doing the same tasks and all getting the same wage.

But that's not what's in the news. They're talking about increasing the wage of jobs that are largely done by women, to match completely different jobs that are largely done by men. Farcical.

 

[Triggaaar]

The argument is not that shop work is as equally physically demanding as warehouse work but that the contribution to the company is the same.

That doesn't make sense. A company needs all of the jobs done, so you could argue that just about all of the staff contribute equally. We need dustmen as much as we need doctors, but that doesn't mean the pay should be the same.

If a company can't recruit for a particular role without increasing the wage for that role, it seems a bit silly that they then need to increase the wage for other roles that they have no problem recruiting for.

 

[beorhthelm]

The argument is not that shop work is as equally physically demanding as warehouse work but that the contribution to the company is the same.

this is a very difficult ground and may lead to conclusions that are not agreeable. lets assume that there is a way to measure the contribution to the company, what does that mean for roles that dont positively contribute to bottom line, support and administrative roles? what about roles that are skilled verses non-skilled, qualified vs non-qualified. the company secretary doesnt contribute much economically, but is essential to good corporate governance that someone well qualified is in that position. then there's the market rate, a position may not contribute much to your business but to attract the skills you need to pay what the going rate is at other companies where they do. this last one has a solution, outsourcing and contractors, which moves the question onto other territory.

 

[Gazwag]

Biggest unfair pay difference between similar roles is in TFL, between Tube drivers and Bus drivers. I would say Bus drivers have it harder, public facing, negotiating traffic, route alterations, tourist advice, cash handling, compared to stop, open doors, close doors, and go. Bus drivers get half a Tube drivers salary.

Not sure how it could be put right, unions have made tube drivers overpaid and to increase bus drivers pay to be equal would result in massive fare increases

 

[The Clamp]

The deal with jobs like warehouse or road work is that you do heavy, physically demanding, long hours in all weathers and the pay off is you get paid a relatively good wage.
If Doris who stacks avacados inside a warm shop gets paid the same why bother doing the graft? May as well get a cushty number school dinners or stacking beans.

 

[Triggaaar]

The school caretaker should get paid more than the head teacher. You could have the lessons without the head, but you couldn't without the caretaker unlocking the school each morning.

 

[Postman Pat]

I think that if the male / female job pay should always be equal, no matter what the job is.
Surely that is the right thing to do, given the modern world we are living in.
Where I work, we have a mixture of male/ female drivers, all doing the same tasks and all getting the same wage.

Doesn't things like experience or qualifications come into it then? Should someone on day 1 get the same as a person who has been doing the job for 10 years because they are doing the same thing?

 

[AmexRuislip]

Doesn't things like experience or qualifications come into it then? Should someone on day 1 get the same as a person who has been doing the job for 10 years because they are doing the same thing?

No chap, it's working for a contract company.
All get the same wages, whether they've been there longer than the newbies.

 

[Baldseagull]

Not sure how it could be put right, unions have made tube drivers overpaid and to increase bus drivers pay to be equal would result in massive fare increases

No, nor me, but it does show a difference in pay for similar roles can exist, without it being a gender issue. I am not saying that unequal pay is not ever a gender issue, just that I think the extent to which it exists is overstated.

 

[AmexRuislip]

But that's not what's in the news. They're talking about increasing the wage of jobs that are largely done by women, to match completely different jobs that are largely done by men. Farcical.

Sorry Trig, what I was pointing out is that there is no difference in wages between the genders, at my place of work

 

[Triggaaar]

Sorry Trig, what I was pointing out is that there is no difference in wages between the genders, at my place of work

No problem. Does your company not have some roles that are mostly done by men, and other roles mostly done by women?

 

[AmexRuislip]

No problem. Does your company not have some roles that are mostly done by men, and other roles mostly done by women?

The company does contract work for the MOD.
Most of the roles are taken up by a percentage of male participants, with females making up the other percent.
No role is male or female dominated, as so to speak, it's equal across the board.
ie: drivers (lgv/ pcv) and aircraft engineers.

 

[happypig]

That doesn't make sense. A company needs all of the jobs done, so you could argue that just about all of the staff contribute equally. We need dustmen as much as we need doctors, but that doesn't mean the pay should be the same.

If a company can't recruit for a particular role without increasing the wage for that role, it seems a bit silly that they then need to increase the wage for other roles that they have no problem recruiting for.

How long to train to be a dustman vs a doctor ?

"contribution to the company" was how is was phrased by the solicitor on the TV this morning and I agree, it's not very good. The argument being made is that the physical aspects of warehouse work do not, in themselves, mean it's more skilled.
How long does it take to learn and become proficient at the job ?
How many warehouse staff, for example, could deal with a drunk and abusive customer (I'm sure some would advocate "give them a right hander") to defuse a situation ? Is it worth £3 an hour more to put stuff on a lorry than it is to take it off a lorry ?

 

[looney]

Joke issue.

1 This case is sub judis so why is the BBC slobering at the chops over it when..
2. There is no mention of supply and demand for labour which is how wages are set in private sector(and some public).
and
3 The pay gap is a myth, as expounded on ch4 in a recent interview with Prof Jordan Petersom where the presenter was handed her arse on a plate.

Identity politics is running out of fuel, pay gap=myth, campus rape culture=myth, patriarchy=myth.

 

[jonnyrovers]

Seeking equity where a gender pay gap exists is one thing. The ‘equal rights for women’ movement (if that’s what it’s called) appears to fall short when it comes to proportional representation of genders in certain positions. Women occupy more board level and senior management positions than ever before, but why aren’t women mining for coal, fishing in the North Sea, or collecting refuse?

There seems to be a very selective version of equality/equity at play currently.


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