[Politics] Brexit

[mikeyjh]

Wish you guys could stop moaning about others not being delighted with the way things are going currently. Talk of a second referendum now is not about a rerun of the leave or remain question. It would be around accept and leave or refuse and remain. This time, it would be clear what the leave option would give you. Sounds very democratic to me, and the likes of me could not argue that the likes of you voted on lies and false promises.

It would be good to have a vote in something substantive and which people understood rather than the deliberately vague question that was posed this time around.

 

[Soulman]

No. You're just being a typical remoaner, trying to twist everything to suit your views. I was never happy joining the EEU or whatever it was called back then. Of course, until the electorate were misled in 1975, there was hope. Now, thankfully, there is hope again. Not that you want to hear that, of course.

He is nitpicking and was not even born then. So has no clue people's feelings, the lack of internet, communication information etc in those days

 

[pastafarian]

That's exactly a rerun. You can't claim a referendum is inherently democratic if it's immediately after an almost identical one.

Regarding false promises: you have no idea what I voted or why, it's extremely patronising and presumptuous.

exactly

Its interesting the remainers like baldseagull are saying they themselves and leavers didnt really know what they were voting for and want another go.

This time, it would be clear what the leave option would give you. Sounds very democratic to me,

they are wrong about leavers, leavers have been very clear what they were voting for and what the consequences of voting leave were, The Remain Establishment were very clear what they wanted and very clear what voting leave meant. Their clear message obviously didnt filter down to the likes of baldseagull ......thats a failing of the remain campaign and not a basis for another referendum simply because individuals didnt understand what their own side were defending against.
There was another one on here who didnt understand the remain hierarchy saying leaving being members of the single market was a bad idea meant they were only saying this because leavers were saying we should stop being members of the single market.

 

[pastafarian]

He is nitpicking and was not even born then. So has no clue people's feelings, the lack of internet, communication information etc in those days

This rather hits the nail on the head.
Its impossible to compare the lack of access people had to information in the 70`s to now. Ive heard remainers say people in the first referendum knew full well joining EEC meant a future EU superstate down the line.......ummmm no they didnt. The population simply didnt have access to the amount of news and debate we enjoy today.

The public were more informed on this referendum than any other political decision in our history......to say they were too stupid to make an informed decision is an accusation that only comes from the losing side........what a surprise.

 

[GT49er]

So why say you have been waiting since 1975 if you weren't happy in 1973 and 1974.

 

[Baldseagull]

That's exactly a rerun. You can't claim a referendum is inherently democratic if it's immediately after an almost identical one.

Regarding false promises: you have no idea what I voted or why, it's extremely patronising and presumptuous.

That is exactly the problem with the referendum, I have no idea what you voted for and neither does the PM. So where does she draw the line?

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

I've heard remainers say people in the first referendum knew full well joining EEC meant a future EU superstate down the line.......ummmm no they didnt. The population simply didnt have access to the amount of news and debate we enjoy today.

All along since joining the common market, politicians tried to hide the truth about European plans for a superstate.

'It will never happen, there are no plans for a European state, a European army, our laws will be protected, we won't lose sovereignty, federal state means something quite innocent in Brussels~it's a difficult word in Britain, for Europeans it means more say to individual states, subsidiarity will protect the individual citizen (ha, I wonder how long I'd last saying that on the streets of Athens) integration removes German domination', and so on and so forth.

Integration came by stealth. Now the EU is creaking at the seams as this immoral and deeply subversive policy has been found out.

 

[Baldseagull]

This rather hits the nail on the head.
Its impossible to compare the lack of access people had to information in the 70`s to now. Ive heard remainers say people in the first referendum knew full well joining EEC meant a future EU superstate down the line.......ummmm no they didnt. The population simply didnt have access to the amount of news and debate we enjoy today.

The public were more informed on this referendum than any other political decision in our history......to say they were too stupid to make an informed decision is an accusation that only comes from the losing side........what a surprise.

Mate, you have no right to claim an intelligent well informed position, given your demonstration of fingers in ears over some of what Dan Hannan has been saying. If you can do that for one person, you can do it for all.

 

[Baldseagull]

exactly

Its interesting the remainers like baldseagull are saying they themselves and leavers didnt really know what they were voting for and want another go.



they are wrong about leavers, leavers have been very clear what they were voting for and what the consequences of voting leave were, The Remain Establishment were very clear what they wanted and very clear what voting leave meant. Their clear message obviously didnt filter down to the likes of baldseagull ......thats a failing of the remain campaign and not a basis for another referendum simply because individuals didnt understand what their own side were defending against.
There was another one on here who didnt understand the remain hierarchy saying leaving being members of the single market was a bad idea meant they were only saying this because leavers were saying we should stop being members of the single market.

Really man, you are unbelievable. Claiming the leave position was clear and remain muddy is about as an arse faced comment as you have ever made, and you have made a few.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

It would be good to have a vote in something substantive and which people understood rather than the deliberately vague question that was posed this time around.

I can quite see that the question asked on the ballot may baffle some remainers on here as it is so 'vague'.

'Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union.'

Highly confusing I'm sure.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Really man, you are unbelievable. Claiming the leave position was clear and remain muddy is about as an arse faced comment as you have ever made, and you have made a few.

No one can say what the EU will look like in a few years if it even exists. Similarly no one knows exactly what Brexit will look like.

We voted whether to remain part of the EU or not.

 

[GT49er]

It would be good to have a vote in something substantive and which people understood rather than the deliberately vague question that was posed this time around.

In what way is 'in' or 'out' vague? It's absolutely crystal clear. Next you'll be arguing that 'no' doesn't mean 'no'!

 

[Baldseagull]

Tis' the Apocalypse I tell ye!!! In the true sense of the word of course, so nothing to worry about really, we just wise up a bit. Quite looking forward to it myself. Le Pen, Farage, Trump, Raggi and Putin showing us what Python Politics is all about. Couldn't be more transparent, the veil is indeed lifting. Anarchy is looming like a light at the end of the tunnel, anarchy in the true sense of the word. I was wearing the tee shirt in 78 shouting about it but I didn't really know what it meant, Got that warm tingly feeling now though, as the onion starts to unravel. Embrace the moment and keep calm folks, we are the people we've been waiting for.

You still don't know what it means if you think any of that lot represent anarchy. I suspect you are just fishing though, no one is that stupid and still able to use a keyboard.

 

[Baldseagull]

In what way is 'in' or 'out' vague? It's absolutely crystal clear. Next you'll be arguing that 'no' doesn't mean 'no'!

So you would be happy if we are out of the EU, whatever the future relationship looked like then?

 

[mikeyjh]

I can quite see that the question asked on the ballot may baffle some remainers on here as it is so 'vague'.

'Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union.'

Highly confusing I'm sure.

Yep, and precisely why after 5 months we still don't have a clue what 'leave' actually means. We certainly can't agree on what people voted for, that has been well documented on these pages.

 

[pastafarian]

Really man, you are unbelievable. Claiming the leave position was clear and remain muddy is about as an arse faced comment as you have ever made, and you have made a few.

Lets clarify, as you are twisting already....As far as im concerned

The leave position was clear
The remain position was clear

Even The President of The European Council is clear he knew what the positions were when he says voting to leave was about ending free movement

Seems to me its only remainer voters like yourself who are saying no one knew( remainers and leavers) what they were voting for even though those in charge of the Remain campaign knew full well the options and what was on the table

 

[mikeyjh]

In what way is 'in' or 'out' vague? It's absolutely crystal clear. Next you'll be arguing that 'no' doesn't mean 'no'!

So, what does it mean, what will our relationship with Europe be?

Was it you that admitted to never having heard of Leave.eu? Either way, it was one of the more vocal brexiteers and kind of proves the point.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

You still don't know what it means if you think any of that lot represent anarchy. I suspect you are just fishing though, no one is that stupid and still able to use a keyboard.

Whoosh.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Yep, and precisely why after 5 months we still don't have a clue what 'leave' actually means. We certainly can't agree on what people voted for, that has been well documented on these pages.

If we voted remain, would we now know what the EU would look like in a year, 3 years, 5 years, 10? No, I thought not. So no remain voters can say what exactly they voted for.

 

[Soulman]

Yep, and precisely why after 5 months we still don't have a clue what 'leave' actually means. We certainly can't agree on what people voted for, that has been well documented on these pages.

The 5 month delay is not the fault of those that voted leave. What the vote means to those who voted leave was, controlling immigration, our laws being decided in the UK, not by unelected EU "officials", setting up and deciding our own trade deals and tariffs, stop putting millions a day into a bottomless pit.
If the government can not implement the will and decision of the majority of an referendum that THEY called, then how is that the fault of the leave voters.