Glenn Murray.....

[AZ Gull]

In defense of Gus it must be pointed out that he thought CMS fitted his style of play better ....

This is the most bizarre thing about the whole Poyet/Murray/CMS situation. CMS clearly WASN'T a player that suited Poyet's style of play, and even CMS knew it.

A little over 6 months after we signed CMS, we played at Hull in an evening game in February 2012. In the programme for the following home game, CMS was quoted as saying:-

I felt like I could implement my game more than I have been able to in previous games. I like to wear defenders out so I like getting the ball in the channels and then I can come short and catch the defenders on their heels, but it makes it harder for me when we play that real passing game. I haven't been able to get myself in the game as much recently but at Hull, largely because of the pitch, we couldn't play our normal game so there were a lot more balls being played into me, I really enjoyed it.

Asked about the fact that Poyet liked to play the passing game, he said:-

This is the way that the gaffer plays and I have got to adjust my game to that. At Hull I could play my way but there are other days where I have got to play a different way. My role as a striker is to adapt and to keep learning.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Agree with pretty much all of that.

Poyet didn't make too many mistakes, but not getting Murray to sign a new contract was one of them.

But Ken Brown nor Tony Bloom never get a mention. The ones who held the purse strings. Poyet went public with the two different pots of money for wages & transfers, which wasn't denied by the club. He had to persuade them to mix them together.
It's just too easy to blame one person.

 

[clapham_gull]

Well, having attending the only SOL Poyet attended.

It was quite obvious there was a problem from his reaction to questions regarded him. My recollection (and if anyone else was there please correct) he struggled to say anything positive.

The club ###### up there. Everyone makes mistakes and a mistake this club made.

Personally I went off him after that meeting and the "love" never return. Much fuelled by his attitude towards FC United.

Hughton is a much better manager and we are lucky to have him.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Well, having attending the only SOL Poyet attended.

It was quite obvious there was a problem from his reaction to questions regarded him. My recollection (and if anyone else was there please correct) he struggled to say anything positive.

The club ###### up there. Everyone makes mistakes and a mistake this club made.

My point exactly. The club, not one individual.

 

[clapham_gull]

My point exactly. The club, not one individual.

Well

 

[drew]

That prat Poyet offered him a contract, which Murrray refused to sign.

Murray & his family would have everyone believe that he said he would sign if more was offered.

We've had several more players refuse to sign contracts since then, but I don't read abuse for Oscar or Hughton.

There are always players that don't accept contracts but I can't recall the last time our top scorer in one season was not offered enough to stay and then the club went and spent considerably more on another striker that didn't fit the system that the first one did!

Absolute crap decision by Poyet.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

There are always players that don't accept contracts but I can't recall the last time our top scorer in one season was not offered enough to stay and then the club went and spent considerably more on another striker that didn't fit the system that the first one did!

Absolute crap decision by Poyet.

The first season at the Amex CMS scored 11 goals. Murray hadn't ever played on the Championship before, & scored 6.
There weren't too meant complaints on Nsc about that. It was when Freedman left, & Holloway took over, that Murray started to score goals. Then most fans started complaining with the benefit of hindsight.
Poyet tried to get him back via a swap with Hoskins, but Gary Dicker broke his leg in training, so it didn't happen.

 

[drew]

The first season at the Amex CMS scored 11 goals. Murray hadn't ever played on the Championship before, & scored 6.
There weren't too meant complaints on Nsc about that. It was when Freedman left, & Holloway took over, that Murray started to score goals. Then most fans started complaining with the benefit of hindsight.
Poyet tried to get him back via a swap with Hoskins, but Gary Dicker broke his leg in training, so it didn't happen.

Wow, 11 goals, I'd forgotten it was as little as that!

Murray should have been kept. He was used to the system we played and had scored a hatful during the promotion. Keeping him was a no brainer unless he was demanding astronomical sums. In all probability there was a personality clash.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Wow, 11 goals, I'd forgotten it was as little as that!

Murray should have been kept. He was used to the system we played and had scored a hatful during the promotion. Keeping him was a no brainer unless he was demanding astronomical sums. In all probability there was a personality clash.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

[Mellotron]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Actually, quite a sizeable number of us said so at the time. He was a ****ing quality striker with us first time round, and has continued to be in his second stint.

If you were to scroll back through to posts from around that time, plenty of us were saying Murray out CMS in was a shit decision which didn't make ANY sense to the style of football we played.

 

[Bwian]

Agree with pretty much all of that.

Poyet didn't make too many mistakes, but not getting Murray to sign a new contract was one of them.

And what did that mistake cost the club? Ignoring the millions wasted on CMS.

Ah well.

 

[AZ Gull]

Actually, quite a sizeable number of us said so at the time. He was a ****ing quality striker with us first time round, and has continued to be in his second stint.

If you were to scroll back through to posts from around that time, plenty of us were saying Murray out CMS in was a shit decision which didn't make ANY sense to the style of football we played.

Adam Virgo has given an insight into what might have been going on in Poyet's mind when that decision was made. Virgo considers himself a friend of Murray and they both played for Poyet in season 2009-10. Virgo was a guest at a BHACHS meeting in January 2014 and a summary of what he had to say was reported in the Spring 2014 edition of "The Albion Chronicle", the society magazine. It included the following:-

I think getting rid of [Murray] was one of Gus Poyet's biggest mistakes. I think Brighton offered him less money, and he had heard the rumours about Craig Mackail-Smith coming in and a rough idea what they were going to offer him. Then Palace offered him a great contract.

He told me that Gus tried to sign him back on loan last season. The thing with Gus was that he wanted to be able to control all his players, and he couldn't control "Muz" - not in the sense of living his life badly, but he was a lazy bugger! We did a five-a-side training session and wouldn't run. Gus got down on his hands and knees, in his over-exaggerated way, and pleaded with him: "Muzza, please run for me!" "Oh all right, whatever!" but he did the same again next time. On the third occasion Gus got a chair and made him sit on it for the session: "If you're not going to run, you might as well sit on a chair!" Gus liked to get reactions out of people but he couldn't get one from Muz and that frustrated him - he couldn't control him. Getting rid of him was probably a matter of personal pride.

If Virgo is right, it would appear that our promotion prospects were snuffed out not by a low ceiling but by hubris.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

But Ken Brown nor Tony Bloom never get a mention. The ones who held the purse strings. Poyet went public with the two different pots of money for wages & transfers, which wasn't denied by the club. He had to persuade them to mix them together.
It's just too easy to blame one person.

The 2 pots of money make perfect sense though. Particularly when Tony loses money.

Wages is dead money, gone forever, Tony's gift to the albion.

Transfer fees are invested money, can be reclaimed on re-sale, Tony's loan to the albion ( of course sometimes money is made on a player, sometimes it is lost - we need to look at the overall squad profit and loss ).

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The 2 pots of money make perfect sense though. Particularly when Tony loses money.

Wages is dead money, gone forever, Tony's gift to the albion.

Transfer fees are invested money, can be reclaimed on re-sale, Tony's loan to the albion ( of course sometimes money is made on a player, sometimes it is lost - we need to look at the overall squad profit and loss ).

So why did he agree to mix the pots a year later?

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

And what did that mistake cost the club? Ignoring the millions wasted on CMS.

Ah well.

yep, a big mistake.

all managers make them. just that poyet's cost us big time.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Adam Virgo has given an insight into what might have been going on in Poyet's mind when that decision was made. Virgo considers himself a friend of Murray and they both played for Poyet in season 2009-10. Virgo was a guest at a BHACHS meeting in January 2014 and a summary of what he had to say was reported in the Spring 2014 edition of "The Albion Chronicle", the society magazine. It included the following:-



If Virgo is right, it would appear that our promotion prospects were snuffed out not by a low ceiling but by hubris.

There's a major flaw in that story. We didn't offer Murray less money. We doubled his wage, but he wanted quadruple. I was told that at Notts County on the last day of the season, by someone involved with the club.

We had no idea whether we would get CMS when clubs like Leicester & West Ham were also in for him.

 

[drew]

There's a major flaw in that story. We didn't offer Murray less money. We doubled his wage, but he wanted quadruple. I was told that at Notts County on the last day of the season, by someone involved with the club.

We had no idea whether we would get CMS when clubs like Leicester & West Ham were also in for him.

I doubt very much that that was what Virgo was inferring. I would respectfully suggest that he was implying that Murray knew he was being offered less than CMS.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

So why did he agree to mix the pots a year later?

No idea. Maybe it was with heavy heart.

The 2 pots make a lot of sense though.

Club revenue + fixed gift from Tony -> wages.

'Loan' from Tony -> player transfer fees which can be recouped ( and 'loan' repaid ).

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I doubt very much that that was what Virgo was inferring. I would respectfully suggest that he was implying that Murray knew he was being offered less than CMS.

Now that I cannot believe. Murray had signed for Palace a good month before CMS even talked to us, & two other clubs. I doubt the club knew what they were going to offer him, because of the other offers.
We do know that CMS said he turned down higher money to come to us.

 

[Mellotron]

There's a major flaw in that story. We didn't offer Murray less money. We doubled his wage, but he wanted quadruple. I was told that at Notts County on the last day of the season, by someone involved with the club.

We had no idea whether we would get CMS when clubs like Leicester & West Ham were also in for him.

All figures I've heard from good sources suggest we didn't even come close to doubling his salary. The offer was frankly pitiful, compared to Palace's.