The Guardian officially vote for . . . . .

[vegster]

Changing the subject slightly, is anyone else increasingly irritated in the way that Broadsheet newspaper websites are making their headlines read like clickbait? The Guardian, to its credit, has kept with proper headlines but The Independent and Telegraph are getting so bad as to make me not want to read whatever is within.

Why do this? I would have thought that one of the golden rules of business is about knowing your customers. If I want Buzzfeed I'll go to Buzzfeed, not the Telegraph.

Read Private Eye and all is explained, sales of printed newspapers are falling and digital clickbait or online subscriptions will soon be their revenue stream.

 

[SeagullofMalaysia]

I can now officially confirm I will also be voting Remain.

Is this another of your predictions?

Sent from popcorn packets for NSC binfests

 

[hans kraay fan club]

According to Farage's Q&A session (the one he did with CMD, can't really call it a debate), immigration from the Commonwealth will go up if we leave the EU as there'll be a block on more EU migration and an increase in migrants from Commonwealth countries. It should be pointed out that Johnson and Gove don't hold this view, however, but are a bit vague about what they do support

So going by Farage's '70 million Turks' nonsense, we can now expect the arrival of 1.2 BILLION Indians and 35 million Ugandans?

(Or did he mean Canada, New Zealand and Australia)

 

[Gwylan]

So going by Farage's '70 million Turks' nonsense, we can now expect the arrival of 1.2 BILLION Indians and 35 million Ugandans?

(Or did he mean Canada, New Zealand and Australia)

No. Because it was in response to the question about whether UKIP was racist. His answer (and I can't be bothered to find the clip and repeat word for word was something like "No and I'll tell you why. When we close our borders to the EU, I want more Commonwealth citizens coming to the UK, these are the countries that we've had traditional links with - not Europe." (or words to that effect)

EDIT; Did just find clip and I wasn't quite accurate. He did say that we'd turned our back on people from India and Africa and that it was wrong that EU citizens got precedence over them but he didn't go on to say, explicitly, that they should come in - as he was interrupted by the mouthy member of the audience - but he certainly seemed to imply that.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

No. Because it was in response to the question about whether UKIP was racist. His answer (and I can't be bothered to find the clip and repeat word for word was something like "No and I'll tell you why. When we close our borders to the EU, I want more Commonwealth citizens coming to the UK, these are the countries that we've had traditional links with - not Europe." (or words to that effect)

EDIT; Did just find clip and I wasn't quite accurate. He did say that we'd turned our back on people from India and Africa and that it was wrong that EU citizens got precedence over them but he didn't go on to say, explicitly, that they should come in - as he was interrupted by the mouthy member of the audience - but he certainly seemed to imply that.

Thank you. That's very interesting

 

[5ways]

I find it odd that people don't think we have a 'traditional link' with Europe seeing as we are, as it happens, also of European descent

 

[worthingseagull123]

Bunch of lefty crap

 

[jakarta]

I find it odd that people don't think we have a 'traditional link' with Europe seeing as we are, as it happens, also of European descent

I think the 'traditional link' means we used to run these other countries.

Something which would clearly have improved somewhere like Belgium and have increased the number of Test Playing Nations to boot...

 

[BLOCK F]

I can now officially confirm I will also be voting Remain.

So shall I, Herr Tubs.
Prost!

 

[Gwylan]

I think the 'traditional link' means we used to run these other countries.

Something which would clearly have improved somewhere like Belgium and have increased the number of Test Playing Nations to boot...

I shudder to think what would have happened if the Germans had taken up cricket, I fear they may have been rather good at it

 

[Hampster Gull]

Of course they have. So we have the guardian and the times for remain, and the sun for brexit. Is that right?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Is this another of your predictions?

Yes, I'm correctly predicting I will vote to Remain

 

[Two Professors]

I think the 'traditional link' means we used to run these other countries.

Something which would clearly have improved somewhere like Belgium and have increased the number of Test Playing Nations to boot...

The only thing, apart from a nuclear weapon, to improve Belgium would be to give the flemish part to Holland and the rest to France.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Yes, I'm correctly predicting I will vote to Remain

Good call

 

[lawros left foot]

The I newspaper has been particularly good during this campaign, fairly even, and has presented the facts better than any other media outlet I've seen

 

[1066familyman]

And very much this bit. How can working-class Leave voters NOT see this?

Perhaps they do see it and yet they still want Brexit. Yours and the Guardian's comments kind of reeks of 'listen to your betters when we tell you what's good for you'. Do you honestly think that when the CBI says vote Remain that they give a toss about C2/D social classes in this country? You think the likes of Branson and JP Morgan have the best interests of pensioners and fixed income, low-waged when they call on the people of Britain to vote Remain? When Microsoft threatens to move their tax avoidance somewhere else (yes, I'm aware of the irony) in just whose interests are they acting? The idea that the big corporations, banks and suchlike want Remain for altruistic reasons is, frankly, a joke.

The very poorest are the ones most likely to have had their communities re-shaped dramatically over the last 20 years by mass immigration and the strain on low-paid jobs, housing, schools, medical services and as a social group, they are the ones who haven't felt the benefits that mass immigration has brought , they're the ones who have suffered are the ones most likely to vote LEAVE. Instead of telling them that they are ignorant Little Englander bigots or that they don't understand things properly, perhaps...just perhaps we could also listen to what they aspire to for a change instead of playing to the drum of the wants of big corporations.

I just wish Corbyn had really stuck to his principles and backed Leave whilst putting very clear distance between himself and right wing bigots that have been allowed to front the Leave campaign. A Leave vote will return a even nastier Tory leadership to power of course, but hopefully only for the short term. Sometimes we have to hit the bottom before we can begin to rise up again.

https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-6d16-What-we-need-is-a-peoples-Brexit#.V2pcXUjdx2E

That was an article from yesterday.

This is one from today: https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk...ues-of-the-present-or-the-future#.V2pgO0jdx2E

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I just wish Corbyn had really stuck to his principles and backed Leave whilst putting very clear distance between himself and right wing bigots that have been allowed to front the Leave campaign. A Leave vote will return a even nastier Tory leadership to power of course, but hopefully only for the short term. Sometimes we have to hit the bottom before we can begin to rise up again.

https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-6d16-What-we-need-is-a-peoples-Brexit#.V2pcXUjdx2E

That was an article from yesterday.

This is one from today: https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk...ues-of-the-present-or-the-future#.V2pgO0jdx2E

Thanks. Its an excellent piece that chimes with exactly what I've been repeating on this thread. Brexit would be very bad for the working man of Britain.

All on the left know the EU is a flawed institution – which is why we need to be part of it, to make it more democratic and transparent, says IAN LAVERY


TO MILLIONS of voters the debate about the future of our country has become overly dominated by two privileged right-wing cliques.

Each led by out-of-touch former Bullingdon Boy rivals, both cabals see the future of our country in very similar terms, two very Tory Britains — one inside and one outside the EU.

Until very recently, the media has allowed the debate over Britain’s place in the European Union to be hijacked by a Tory civil war.

The debate has been seized upon by Boris Johnson, the darling of the Tory right who seeks to replace David Cameron as leader of the Conservative Party, and a ragtag bunch of right-wing zealots.

These vicious ideologues have built their political careers on right-wing politics that would see institutions cherished by the British people swept away in their free-market utopia.

They now advocate spending a seriously misleading EU membership fee on everything from healthcare to farms and regional subsidies, depending on who they are speaking to.

This has been a debate built upon a disgusting deception being perpetrated on the British people.

The sight of Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Iain Duncan Smith, Michael Gove and Priti Patel, among others, advocating increases in public spending, while voting for, presiding over and enthusiastically championing the exact opposite, is enough to make your skin crawl.

Are we really to believe that on leaving the EU, an institution that enshrines protection against people like these, that these extremists would abandon their lifelong beliefs and in the glow of so-called independence bestow new-found riches on the British people?

Or is it more likely that these sickening opportunists are using the likes of the NHS as the crumb of cheese on the Brexiteer mousetrap ready to snap the necks of the very people who need it most?
Even the Tory former prime minister John Major, hardly a militant himself, described the NHS in the hands of the Tory Brexiteers as being as safe as a pet hamster with a hungry python.

The relentless drive to focus the debate on the topic of immigration has seen it at its worst.

This is a referendum on our membership of the EU, not on the positives or negatives of migration, and the Leave campaign’s move in this direction is a cynical and calculated ploy.

A withdrawal from the EU will not settle the immigration debate that this country so badly needs.

For too long we have been quiet on immigration and Britain is badly in need of a sensible debate on the issue. However, it cannot and should not be left to a racist media and those seeking to supplant David Cameron with their Establishment clown to hold it.

We need to consider the positives and negatives on communities in Britain and across Europe.

We must also consider the global nature of the push and pull factors on movement of people.

To do this I firmly believe the answers lie in more co-operation across the continent and discussing how sensibly to tackle this global issue, not trying to pull up the drawbridge and pretend everything will go away.

Those who champion Brexit are no friends of working people and we should not let them con us into pushing Boris Johnson into Downing Street on the back of the referendum.

The golden-locked Establishment embarrassment has already been endorsed by Ukip leader Nigel Farage.

Farage himself only left the Tory Party over Europe. Could a Johnson-led party see this highly divisive figure welcomed back with open arms, given safe passage into Westminster and a place at the top table?

The impact of Brexit on working people should not be underestimated. An unfettered, Johnson-led, Conservative government with no European protection would be a disaster.

Let us be clear — we should not place the future of our country in the hands of these right-wing rogues.

There can be no denying that the European Union is in need of fundamental changes.

Citizens of the 28 member states need to feel like they have a say in the institution and the power to affect its decision-making process.

The organisation needs to become more democratic, more transparent and operated more in the interests of the working class than the bosses.

For all of its flaws, the EU is still good for Britain and north-east England, home of my constituency.

It protects our rights both at work and as consumers. It creates jobs and growth with access to the world’s largest single market.

It keeps us safe, bringing criminals to justice and fostering peace and stability. It improves our environment.

This is the most turbulent of times, with crises on a continental and global scale.

These require solutions that are bigger than Britain alone. Isolation from the rest of Europe is no way to face the issues of the present or the future, and would bring no solution either for ourselves or for our partners across the globe.

We are faced with an aggressive world of corporations free to move across the world in their own interests.

Leaving Europe would make worse not strengthen the position of workers affected by globalisation and countries crippled by aggressive tax avoidance.

We are faced with severe weather fuelled by climate change that threatens life for millions across the globe. Leaving Europe would reduce Britain’s influence and worsen the situation.

The rise of the far right across Europe, including here at home, is a worrying development in modern times. Leaving Europe will only foster hatred and worsen this.

We cannot let the future of our country, our continent and our world be put at risk by a Ukip-Tory desire to wind back the clock to a golden age that only ever existed in their imaginations.

We need to remain in Europe. To take our place at the top table and to build a progressive alliance across the continent to rebuild the EU in the interests of working people.

As a trade unionist and former miner, I am reminded of many of the colliery lodge banners in this debate.

The old slogans promoting co-operation, socialism and internationalism. But most one sticks out more than all: “The past we inherit, the future we build.” Vote Remain

 

[Buzzer]

I just wish Corbyn had really stuck to his principles and backed Leave whilst putting very clear distance between himself and right wing bigots that have been allowed to front the Leave campaign. A Leave vote will return a even nastier Tory leadership to power of course, but hopefully only for the short term. Sometimes we have to hit the bottom before we can begin to rise up again.

https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-6d16-What-we-need-is-a-peoples-Brexit#.V2pcXUjdx2E

That was an article from yesterday.

This is one from today: https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk...ues-of-the-present-or-the-future#.V2pgO0jdx2E

The one good thing about this referendum is that it must make UKIP and Farage redundant. Cameron and Osborne are also now discredited and I really can't see Boris getting party-wide support from the Tory party t become leader.

 

[WonderingSoton]

The Guardian officially vote for Remain...Except the Guardian finance editor, who is pro Leave...

https://www.theguardian.com/money/blog/2016/jun/18/eu-vote-brexit-working-people-rents-wages

The inconvenient truth hey.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

The one good thing about this referendum is that it must make UKIP and Farage redundant. Cameron and Osborne are also now discredited and I really can't see Boris getting party-wide support from the Tory party t become leader.

As Ian Lavery says above, Farage only left the Tory party over Europe. Why would the odious toad NOT be allowed to crawl back into a Johnson government in the event of Brexit? #shudder