So are Reading really a better project ?

[The Large One]

We'll have to agree to differ on the paucity of Gus' budget.

I am of the opinion that we had the players to go all the way and without a decent upper Championship budget this would not have been the case.


If it was the norm to gripe, I might have much more sympathy as many on here seem to have for Gus. I am struggling to think of any other unproven above League One and the Championship managers that has been quite so vociferous in his whinging when he had the facilities that Gus had. I cannot think of many non Premier League managers, no I can't think of any, that have been as demanding as Gus appears to have been.

I don't mean that to sound like Gus had not achieved plenty with us but his expectations just got out of hand imo and it's not like he dropped a league or two to get back to where he had been and has some sort of right to manage at the top.

A little bit more patience and keeping his gob shut would have seen him in the Premier League, with us or without us I'm sure. He may get there now but he is gonna be seen as a prima donna by most real football fans and I believe his ultimate ambition has probably slipped further out of reach with all that has gone on.

My opinion - and I was consistent in this last season - I never felt we had the squad to go up, and certainly not one to stay up. My expectations were nothing like as high as many, and I'm certainly not re-writing history as some are doing.

To blame our lack of promotion on one person, and one person only, is ludicrous. It rules out any sense of responsibility everyone else has.

 

[London Irish]

The thing is, once you have lost faith in a manager and you know he could up sticks at any time, it makes it wvery difficult signing players if you don't know if he will be here or not.

New and current players also need commitment otherwise we get an unsettled enviroment. There was no chance of a repaired relationship and that is just wishful thinking.

As soon as Bloom knew Gus wasn't the future he had to act to find possible replacements. It just so happens that he knew OG was leaving Maccabi, he spoke to him, he liked what we are doing and told Bloom what he will do. As soon as he had the interest from OG, Gus would have been on his way.

The only question was how Gus would leave, and if he was an angle and acted properly, Bloom would have paid him the compensation. Fortunately for Bloom Gus chose to hang himself and he has saved £2.5m or whatever it was.

Very interesting and credible comments, thanks for that. But if you don't mind me saying so, it does add weight to those who believe the gross misconduct charges came after Bloom decided to dispense with Poyet, not before.

There is one issue that I think you are avoiding like an elephant in the room though, and it would be good of you if you did comment on it - was the original cause of their disagreement between the pair: the budget going forward. Surely you are not going to argue this is a total smokescreen issue by Poyet? What I am intrigued to know is how far apart the two men were on what was a reasonable budget for a club of Albion's very high aims and objectives. Was it really a huge gulf?

The nagging feeling I am left with as an ordinary fan, granted that Poyet is a fiery individual prone to great emotional outbursts, is could Bloom have shown more patience and managed his manager better? Even another year of Poyet would have given us a greater chance in a hard league like the Championship than pitching a talented newcomer to British football like Oscar into the fray.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Why was Gus so bothered about the 2013/14 budget in March when we were on the cusp of the play-offs? Either we go up and Gus gets a big budget or we don't go up and we have to wheel and deal.

There are plenty of decent players in the squad who could command a decent fee - Bridcutt, Buckley, Barnes, CMS etc so scope for buying and selling without weakening the squad overall.

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

reading are a better project than us for as long as they have the benefit of premier league parachute cash. It really is that simple as it completely changes the game.

this

 

[Icy Gull]

Why was Gus so bothered about the 2013/14 budget in March when we were on the cusp of the play-offs? Either we go up and Gus gets a big budget or we don't go up and we have to wheel and deal.

.

That is a very good point

 

[Matt Richards]

The thing is, once you have lost faith in a manager and you know he could up sticks at any time, it makes it wvery difficult signing players if you don't know if he will be here or not.

New and current players also need commitment otherwise we get an unsettled enviroment. There was no chance of a repaired relationship and that is just wishful thinking.

As soon as Bloom knew Gus wasn't the future he had to act to find possible replacements. It just so happens that he knew OG was leaving Maccabi, he spoke to him, he liked what we are doing and told Bloom what he will do. As soon as he had the interest from OG, Gus would have been on his way.

The only question was how Gus would leave, and if he was an angle and acted properly, Bloom would have paid him the compensation. Fortunately for Bloom Gus chose to hang himself and he has saved £2.5m or whatever it was.

I agree with your points here and comes back to what I was saying previously. Traditionally chairmen HAVE paid up, cut their ties and allowed the manager to move on to avoid having someone who is not pulling in the same direction. Tony could have done this before the trio were suspended but elected to fight it as employee matters are dealt with outside the footballing world. As soon as they were suspended it was never going to be great for the club and it was always going to be a case of whether the money saved from paying Guss compensation was going to be greater than the disruption and bad press this was going to cause the club. This will only really be proven come next May.

 

[The Large One]

Why was Gus so bothered about the 2013/14 budget in March when we were on the cusp of the play-offs? Either we go up and Gus gets a big budget or we don't go up and we have to wheel and deal.

Because, like the Board, you have to consider all possibilities. How can you not be bothered about something which is a distinct possibility - and key to next season's campaign?

As for a getting 'a big budget' in the Prem, it would still be one of the smallest in the division.

As has been said ad nauseum (though some are still struggling with this), it's not the size of the budget comparable to what you or your predecessor has had that's important, it's the size of the budget comparable to your competitors.

 

[symyjym]

Very interesting and credible comments, thanks for that. But if you don't mind me saying so, it does add weight to those who believe the gross misconduct charges came after Bloom decided to dispense with Poyet, not before.

There is one issue that I think you are avoiding like an elephant in the room though, and it would be good of you if you did comment on it - was the original cause of their disagreement between the pair: the budget going forward. Surely you are not going to argue this is a total smokescreen issue by Poyet? What I am intrigued to know is how far apart the two men were on what was a reasonable budget for a club of Albion's very high aims and objectives. Was it really a huge gulf?

The nagging feeling I am left with as an ordinary fan, granted that Poyet is a fiery individual prone to great emotional outbursts, is could Bloom have shown more patience and managed his manager better? Even another year of Poyet would have given us a greater chance in a hard league like the Championship than pitching a talented newcomer to British football like Oscar into the fray.

I think that if Bloom wasn't convinced by Gus's coaching style he wouldn't want to give Gus an open cheque book. I am only saying this after witnessing our prematch warm ups with all the coaching staff working the players in a tried, tested and proven method. Gus's warm up had Charlie running around with the players and Tanno sat slumped in his chair, arms folded, and chatting to Gus. It's the difference between night and day.

Gus was lazy and couldn't modernise in this department.

 

[symyjym]

I agree with your points here and comes back to what I was saying previously. Traditionally chairmen HAVE paid up, cut their ties and allowed the manager to move on to avoid having someone who is not pulling in the same direction. Tony could have done this before the trio were suspended but elected to fight it as employee matters are dealt with outside the footballing world. As soon as they were suspended it was never going to be great for the club and it was always going to be a case of whether the money saved from paying Guss compensation was going to be greater than the disruption and bad press this was going to cause the club. This will only really be proven come next May.

If Gus didn't do anything to warrant suspension, like the angry vitriolic email to all staff that leaked to the press, he wouldn't have been suspended in the first place. If he hadn't have done that it would be different. We did it his way and ended up saving £2.5m.

By the way I don't think the club have come out of this badly.

 

[Icy Gull]

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Because, like the Board, you have to consider all possibilities. How can you not be bothered about something which is a distinct possibility - and key to next season's campaign?

As for a getting 'a big budget' in the Prem, it would still be one of the smallest in the division.

As has been said ad nauseum (though some are still struggling with this), it's not the size of the budget comparable to what you or your predecessor has had that's important, it's the size of the budget comparable to your competitors.

Why does Gus get so much sympathy when the vast majority of managers are in the same boat but just get on with the job unless a better one comes along?

I am staggered at how much sympathy and understanding Gus is getting from plenty of the more considered posters on NSC when he has been moaning like a spoilt brat, whilst touting himself month after month. Am I missing something here?

Can someone please name me one manager with similar experience to Gus who continually behaves like this? I might then be able to comprehend how this seems to be accepted as reasonable behaviour from a manager who, to me seems to have a fantastic job.

 

[London Irish]

Why was Gus so bothered about the 2013/14 budget in March when we were on the cusp of the play-offs? Either we go up and Gus gets a big budget or we don't go up and we have to wheel and deal.

There are plenty of decent players in the squad who could command a decent fee - Bridcutt, Buckley, Barnes, CMS etc so scope for buying and selling without weakening the squad overall.

Because the play-offs are always a lottery, hence plans for next year had to be made. Because weaknesses in his squad could be exposed by other top 6 teams in those play-offs, so strengthening had to be on the agenda if the aim is to get to the Reading size budgets of Premiership money by getting promoted, and keeping players like Wayne Bridge.

The fact that he was bothered about the following year's budget surely gives the lie to the accusation that he was committed to departing straight away.

 

[The Large One]

If Gus didn't do anything to warrant suspension, like the angry vitriolic email to all staff that leaked to the press, he wouldn't have been suspended in the first place. If he hadn't have done that it would be different. We did it his way and ended up saving £2.5m.

By the way I don't think the club have come out of this badly.

Are you a member of the Board?

You seem to be posting an awful lot of Tony's thinking, and presenting it as fact.

Do you know for a fact that Gus was suspended over this email? Or are you speculating?

 

[Icy Gull]

The fact that he was bothered about the following year's budget surely gives the lie to the accusation that he was committed to departing straight away.

But it doesn't explain why he felt the need to ask to walk away 4 days before the Palace game, does that sound like someone who is in it for the long haul to you? I can only imagine myself in Bloom's place and I'd certainly start looking for a replacement at that stage. (This is not a suggestion that I could run the club btw!)

So many fecking questions and counter questions with so few answers...

 

[Seasider78]

Why does Gus get so much sympathy when the vast majority of managers are in the same boat but just get on with the job unless a better one comes along?

I am staggered at how much sympathy and understanding Gus is getting from plenty of the more considered posters on NSC when he has been moaning like a spoilt brat, whilst touting himself month after month. Am I missing something here?

Can someone please name me one manager with similar experience to Gus who continually behaves like this? I might then be able to comprehend how this seem to be acceptable behaviour.

It is also alarming the volume of discussions still carrying on about Gus given the new manager is in place and the season is underway.

All the best to Gus for the future but surely time to move on and put efforts into getting behind Oscar

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

And for the record I agreed with everything Poyet said in that e mail. This is just an updated version of Kramer V Kramer except it is called Poyet V Barber, see you in court.

 

[Icy Gull]

It is also alarming the volume of discussions still carrying on about Gus given the new manager is in place and the season is underway.

All the best to Gus for the future but surely time to move on and put efforts into getting behind Oscar

Sorry, I keep meaning to just shut up but keep seeing posts that pique my interest

 

[London Irish]

I think that if Bloom wasn't convinced by Gus's coaching style he wouldn't want to give Gus an open cheque book. I am only saying this after witnessing our prematch warm ups with all the coaching staff working the players in a tried, tested and proven method. Gus's warm up had Charlie running around with the players and Tanno sat slumped in his chair, arms folded, and chatting to Gus. It's the difference between night and day.

Gus was lazy and couldn't modernise in this department.

This for me is where it gets a bit tenuous, I'm sorry to say. You are trying to convince that the enormous technical improvements that we saw in Albion football under Gus came about with outdated and old-fashioned methods. I really don't think that will wash with fair-minded fans, it's lacks any kind of credibility and reality test with what we've seen from our football over the past 4 years.

As for Gus being lazy - it's been said constantly about him over the years that he's a football obsessive who could never switch off from work. The story that you are not getting us to buy I'm afraid jars too much with previous accounts.

There is no doubt that Oscar will bring in fresh ideas and methods, and those will be very welcome, but the idea that there was something massively broken that needed fixing about being the best-performing Championship team in calendar year 2013 again stretches credibility too far.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Wow, this is a bit nostalgic...

 

[Acker79]

It is also alarming the volume of discussions still carrying on about Gus given the new manager is in place and the season is underway.

All the best to Gus for the future but surely time to move on and put efforts into getting behind Oscar

It doesn't help when the chairman comments on it giving people more info to salivate over, then gus goes on tv and comments on it giving people more info to salivate over. This is likely to keep being discussed all the while they keep making public comments (gus will probably be asked about it at least when he first appears on each channel).

 

[B.W.]

Because the play-offs are always a lottery, hence plans for next year had to be made. Because weaknesses in his squad could be exposed by other top 6 teams in those play-offs, so strengthening had to be on the agenda if the aim is to get to the Reading size budgets of Premiership money by getting promoted, and keeping players like Wayne Bridge.

The fact that he was bothered about the following year's budget surely gives the lie to the accusation that he was committed to departing straight away.

Gus' was committed to staying, but on HIS unreasonable terms.