Not Andy Naylor
Well-known member
Mihir Bose on the Today programme has just compared it to Alf Ramsey dropping Jimmy Greaves for the World Cup final. Except that he didn't. Greaves didn't play in the QF or SF either.
Correct, even during the very controversial Woodward tour to NZ in 2005, a tour that I spent 7 grand watching us get smashed, he only selected 7, 6 and 5 Englishmen respectively, to start the three tests, and the Welsh supporters on our tour were moaning bitterly about that....... ten is an outrage.The great 74 lions team had only 6 Welshmen in it - despite Wales being easily the best home nation. Everyone contributed in that team because management recognised certain players for certain positions. Uttley and Milliken did just as much as Edwards and Bennett.
It just doesn't sit right with me to have so many Welshmen in the team...
This is true, but that was more down to injuries/fitness than blatant favouritism,.... the head coach on that tour was Scottish, the captain was Scottish,...There were 11 Enlgishmen against New Zealand 20 years ago. If they 10 Englishmen no-one would have a problem
Correct, even during the very controversial Woodward tour to NZ in 2005, a tour that I spent 7 grand watching us get smashed, he only selected 7, 6 and 5 Englishmen respectively, to start the three tests, and the Welsh supporters on our tour were moaning bitterly about that....... ten is an outrage.
Gullivers are good but pricey,... mind you 5 days in Fiji before, and 5 days in Sydney after didn't help.
Here's a slightly off-topic question (and as you spent that much on a Lions tour your opinion counts more than most), at the end of that tour when we'd got absolutely thrashed there was a lot of talk that the Lions couldn't survive in the professional era and that the essentially scratch nature of the team (not helped by the shortened tours giving the players less time to get to know each other) meant that they could never compete with tighter national squads. Especially SH squads.Correct, even during the very controversial Woodward tour to NZ in 2005, a tour that I spent 7 grand watching us get smashed, he only selected 7, 6 and 5 Englishmen respectively, to start the three tests, and the Welsh supporters on our tour were moaning bitterly about that....... ten is an outrage.
Before this tour the thought of turning down the chance to play for the Lions was unthinkable. However, if the players feel the Head Coach is going to favour the players of one nation over the others then it will weaken the ethos of the Lions and cause inevitable divisions in the squad.
I can see how the likes of Tuilagi, Croft, Hogg, Maitland and Connor Murray might have looked at the situation and thought they'd be better off resting up.
Can I ask who in the Northern hemisphere plays this beautiful running rugby. In the 6 Nations , Italy did against France and that was about it. Ireland didn't and were bloody awful. England only scored one try after the first game and played the same rugby style as Wales but less well.
Toulon won Heineken Cup playing 'worse' rugby.
In the Premiership Gloucester and Exeter were the only clubs who played with some panache, and neither made the play-offs
I don't think it's a ridiculous spin at all. I think it's now more likely that likely fringe players will give it a miss in future, maybe coming up with a mystery injury come selection time. Tom Croft has a very realistic chance of winning the Heineken Cup with Leicester and doing well in the World Cup with England - we've been in 2 of the last 3 finals.
Playing for the Lions only weakens his chances of achieving these goals as his body will get less rest. Leicester pay him well and will clearly be keen for him to stay at home if there's any chance of this happening.
Gatland himself said the last selection meeting had been heated and I'm not surprised.
All of the above has happened in football with the England team and I don't see any fundamental difference between that and the Lions. To work, that unique Lions X Factor has to be there, and by dropping O'Driscoll out of the squad altogether and starting 10 Welshmen I think the essence of the Lions has gone.
I don't think it's a ridiculous spin at all. I think it's now more likely that likely fringe players will give it a miss in future, maybe coming up with a mystery injury come selection time. Tom Croft has a very realistic chance of winning the Heineken Cup with Leicester and doing well in the World Cup with England - we've been in 2 of the last 3 finals.
Playing for the Lions only weakens his chances of achieving these goals as his body will get less rest. Leicester pay him well and will clearly be keen for him to stay at home if there's any chance of this happening.
Gatland himself said the last selection meeting had been heated and I'm not surprised.
All of the above has happened in football with the England team and I don't see any fundamental difference between that and the Lions. To work, that unique Lions X Factor has to be there, and by dropping O'Driscoll out of the squad altogether and starting 10 Welshmen I think the essence of the Lions has gone.
I'm three pints to the good, so apologies for being blunt, but I hope those of you criticising Gatland feel suitably ridiculous having seen the performance (including 12 man line out) and player reaction to the victory.
The Lions won.
Why ? What has changed ? The Lions won. The criticism of Gatland was for the spirit of the Lions - not the fact that the team could not win. I think you may have missed the point slightly.