Another EU binfest....

[beorhthelm]

You anti-EU numpties are always telling us that it would take 5 minutes for trade agreements to be renegotiated. Not only is that article telling us this isn't true, it is telling us precisely WHY it isn't true.

and the pro EU numpties are ignoring that we have two tier EU, those in the Euro and those not, and that this will need be resolved soon with some members rolling back to a single market agreement while others move on to closer political and economic union. fiscal union, with harmonised and centrally dictated tax and spending policies. the UK isnt going to join that party (or the Danes or Swedes, or others) so an alternative will have to be found.

 

[Simster]

It does annoy me that an organisation that is little more than a shouty pressure group gets so many column inches in newspapers as well as television coverage. They haven't come close to winning a single seat. I wish the more centre leaning Tories wouldn't get their knickers in such a twist in an attempt to pander to the anti EU in their party. Labour haven't let their fringe elements wag the dog since the 1980s.

 

[BigGully]

You anti-EU numpties are always telling us that it would take 5 minutes for trade agreements to be renegotiated. Not only is that article telling us this isn't true, it is telling us precisely WHY it isn't true.

As I've said before, it's why I don't really feel the need to have this argument with you clowns. The fact is, if it is a debate that ever needs to happen (perhaps by UKIP actually winning a seat as opposed to the 50 or so that the pro-EU LibDems seem to manage every 5 years), it will do, and you will get slaughtered.

As I have already said I was willing to accept the pro EU rhetoric, after all if it improved my long term standard of living, then I would have gone with it.

It soon became obvious it was an intrusive, arrogant and corrupt politically driven experiment.

More annoying are those politicians and people like you who are pro European and even though you are being proved wrong at every turn you remain the most vehement supporters of this failing structure.

You're tiresome.

 

[Simster]

and the pro EU numpties are ignoring that we have two tier EU, those in the Euro and those not, and that this will need be resolved soon with some members rolling back to a single market agreement while others move on to closer political and economic union. fiscal union, with harmonised and centrally dictated tax and spending policies. the UK isnt going to join that party (or the Danes or Swedes, or others) so an alternative will have to be found.

Utter rubbish. What do you mean "this will need to be resolved soon"? There is nothing to resolve. Sharing the same currency does not mean "closer political and economic union with harmonised and centrally dictated tax and spending policies" are fait accompli. And if they do choose to harmonise certain policies, that is for those nation states to decide. It doesn't mean that it has to be done to the exclusion of everyone else.

 

[Simster]

As I have already said I was willing to accept the pro EU rhetoric, after all if it improved my long term standard of living, then I would have gone with it.

It soon became obvious it was an intrusive, arrogant and corrupt politically driven experiment.

More annoying are those politicians and people like you who are pro European and even though you are being proved wrong at every turn you remain the most vehement supporters of this failing structure.

You're tiresome.

Proved wrong at every turn? I don't think so. In fact I know so. But you've always been one of the village idiots on here with an apparent lack of ability to debate coherently so I'm happy to ignore you.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Labour haven't let their fringe elements wag the dog since the 1980s.

And since have just become a Tory party mark II. Isn't fringe politics and "shouty pressure groups" how policies of all parties are developed ? After all, it's not that long ago that the SDP and then the Lib Dems were a fringe party. Dismissing fringes outright is what breeds resentment and non-inclusive politics.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Utter rubbish. What do you mean "this will need to be resolved soon"? There is nothing to resolve. Sharing the same currency does not mean "closer political and economic union with harmonised and centrally dictated tax and spending policies" are fait accompli. And if they do choose to harmonise certain policies, that is for those nation states to decide. It doesn't mean that it has to be done to the exclusion of everyone else.

There are many pro-EU commentators and politicians ( the aforementioned Lord Owen being one of them ) that believe the only way to save the Euro and keep it strong is complete fiscal union. Even pro-EU people can see the current idea of "one size fits all" has been an utter failure in terms of economic stability.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I could have predicted it would be little angry you that would have changed the direction of a perfectly polite debating thread to a mud slinging, name calling binfest.

Mud slinging aside, he's correct.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

And since have just become a Tory party mark II.

You really are showing your ignorance today.

 

[BigGully]

Proved wrong at every turn? I don't think so. In fact I know so. But you've always been one of the village idiots on here with an apparent lack of ability to debate coherently so I'm happy to ignore you.

Proved that you're tiresome, even more so.

 

[Simster]

There are many pro-EU commentators and politicians ( the aforementioned Lord Owen being one of them ) that believe the only way to save the Euro and keep it strong is complete fiscal union. Even pro-EU people can see the current idea of "one size fits all" has been an utter failure in terms of economic stability.

You're arguing a different point from the one I'm making. What I am saying is that beorhthelm's assertion that "a two-tier EU needs to be resolved" is absolute drivel.

And you said "one size fits all" has been an utter failure in terms of economic stability. This isn't true either. I'd agree that the single currency has not worked at all, but that has only been in place for a decade. What about the other 40 years of single market trading, during which we have seen little in the way of instability, and the complete absence of wars from member states in that time?

 

[Simster]

Proved that you're tiresome, even more so.

Sssssh. The grown ups are talking.

 

[BigGully]

Sssssh. The grown ups are talking.

Childish and tiresome, a terrible combination by you.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

There are many pro-EU commentators and politicians ( the aforementioned Lord Owen being one of them ) that believe the only way to save the Euro and keep it strong is complete fiscal union. Even pro-EU people can see the current idea of "one size fits all" has been an utter failure in terms of economic stability.

Agree.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

You really are showing your ignorance today.

What is it that prevents those that support our membership of the EU from entering a debate about it without flinging insults around ?

 

[Simster]

Childish and tiresome, a terrible combination by you.

Your contribution so far to this thread is to bore me to death by calling me tiresome three times. Well done. I know you think I'm tiresome, and I don't care because you're a pompous, deluded no-mark on an internet message board.

Now if you haven't got anything else to say that is specific to the debate being held, could you please leave the grown ups alone to their complicated conversation?

 

[Simster]

What is it that prevents those that support our membership of the EU from entering a debate about it without flinging insults around ?

OK, I take the "clown" and "numpty" insult back. I'm surprised you felt quite so hurt by these words though!

 

[Westdene Seagull]

You're arguing a different point from the one I'm making. What I am saying is that beorhthelm's assertion that "a two-tier EU needs to be resolved" is absolute drivel.

And you said "one size fits all" has been an utter failure in terms of economic stability. This isn't true either. I'd agree that the single currency has not worked at all, but that has only been in place for a decade. What about the other 40 years of single market trading, during which we have seen little in the way of instability, and the complete absence of wars from member states in that time?

The EU's future lies with the Euro - that means the Euro needs saving and there's only one way of doing that - complete fiscal union. While the Euro is weak and damaged so is the EU. Personally I think, if we leave in the next few years, then we'll see more countries leave the EU. Countries like Sweden and Denmark will never sign up to fiscal union.

As for lack of war, IMO I'd suggest that has more to do with NATO and the treaties members have by belonging to that organisation ( which was formed well before the EU ).

 

[BigGully]

What is it that prevents those that support our membership of the EU from entering a debate about it without flinging insults around ?

Its a strange irony, they have nothing to offer apart from a deteriorating position, yet they become the most vociferous defending their flawed position.

Christ they have been banging on about its virtues and they look a little silly right now.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

OK, I take the "clown" and "numpty" insult back. I'm surprised you felt quite so hurt by these words though!

hurt indeed ! I just find it a bizarre way to put a decent argument. I'm not sure "Oi, numpty, I'm right and you're a pillock" will ever be seen as a trump card at the Oxford Debating Society !!!!