Making STUFF The British Way

[Tricky Dicky]

We make stuff,that is what we do.Manufacturing is still twice the size and pays twice the tax the financial sector paid during the 2002-2008 "boom years" and that boom was largely made from asset stripping manufacturing,selling the country down the river for a cheap bonusday.

I doubt those figures can be true. The financial sector is roughly 14% of GDP, and manufacturing certainly isn't 28%.

 

[User removed 4]

We do quite a lot of this, but outsource production to low labour cost countries.

Education is required, but there is an unwillingness from many of today's youth to learn a trade, or get a degree in science and/or engineering, because these are seen as careers that are (a) too much like hard work, and (b) lack kudos.

I take your point, but I also think we do our young people a disservice sometimes, sure there are a hell of a lot of wasters, but they are a minority, there are a hell of a lot of good kids out there who are being let down by governments, of whatever persuasion, this ridiculous notion of 50% of kids to do degrees for a start, we need to give kids trade apprenticeships, there should be incentives for this, i see apprenticeships in office work being advertised , with all due respect, that is silly.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I take your point, but I also think we do our young people a disservice sometimes, sure there are a hell of a lot of wasters, but they are a minority, there are a hell of a lot of good kids out there who are being let down by governments, of whatever persuasion, this ridiculous notion of 50% of kids to do degrees for a start, we need to give kids trade apprenticeships, there should be incentives for this, i see apprenticeships in office work being advertised , with all due respect, that is silly.

Totally agree with this.

We need to give the youth trade apprenticeships for sure, but we need to create the jobs. Germany has an under-25s unemployment figure which is currently a third of ours. Why? Because they make stuff, and a lot of it is made in small to medium sized privately or family owned businesses that provide proper jobs and proper apprenticeships to the local community. And because they are mainly locally owned they feel a sense of duty and pride to their town or city and prefer to plod along providing quality goods and employment with prospects and decent pay as opposed to just looking at their bottom line, stitching up the staff and hoping for a big buy out one day. Tax incentives to specific manufacturing industries is the way to go.

I cannot give you a figure for wasters but I am convinced most wasters would change if you gave them purpose and pride. I recently read a piece about the role of the Newcastle shipyards and how so many of the city provided input into each ship whether it be actually riveting the thing together or in a less direct role. Either way the entire city was touched by each launch and families took pride in each new ship. Our cities used to be proud hard-working places and it is no coincidence this has gone and attitudes have changed with the decline of industry and manufacturing.

We can make stuff and the idea that we cannot because the Chinese do it cheaper is part nonsense. In the last decade our textile manufacture has declined 50% (I think) and we buy primarily from abroad now. A number of European countries still make a lot of their own textiles at home and buy them internally. If they can do it why don’t we? Part of the reason is that other nations prefer quality whereas we prefer cheaper shittier stuff. Buy products for life and not for 5 minutes as almost everything else is a false economy....just ask a German taxi driver why they almost all drive a Merc and not a Skoda.

Stream of consciousness over.

 

[User removed 4]

Totally agree with this.

We need to give the youth trade apprenticeships for sure, but we need to create the jobs. Germany has an under-25s unemployment figure which is currently a third of ours. Why? Because they make stuff, and a lot of it is made in small to medium sized privately or family owned businesses that provide proper jobs and proper apprenticeships to the local community. And because they are mainly locally owned they feel a sense of duty and pride to their town or city and prefer to plod along providing quality goods and employment with prospects and decent pay as opposed to just looking at their bottom line, stitching up the staff and hoping for a big buy out one day. Tax incentives to specific manufacturing industries is the way to go.

I cannot give you a figure for wasters but I am convinced most wasters would change if you gave them purpose and pride. I recently read a piece about the role of the Newcastle shipyards and how so many of the city provided input into each ship whether it be actually riveting the thing together or in a less direct role. Either way the entire city was touched by each launch and families took pride in each new ship. Our cities used to be proud hard-working places and it is no coincidence this has gone and attitudes have changed with the decline of industry and manufacturing.

We can make stuff and the idea that we cannot because the Chinese do it cheaper is part nonsense. In the last decade our textile manufacture has declined 50% (I think) and we buy primarily from abroad now. A number of European countries still make a lot of their own textiles at home and buy them internally. If they can do it why don’t we? Part of the reason is that other nations prefer quality whereas we prefer cheaper shittier stuff. Buy products for life and not for 5 minutes as almost everything else is a false economy....just ask a German taxi driver why they almost all drive a Merc and not a Skoda.

Stream of consciousness over.

at the risk of this turning into the mutual admiration society, i have to say i agree with all of this, we can learn from the germans, i was also in zurich recently , having lunch with a frenchman , who's view, was that the germans/swiss etc have a set of rules, and just follow them implicitly, hence their countries "work", and ours to a certain extent, doesnt.

 

[The Optimist]

I recently read a piece about the role of the Newcastle shipyards and how so many of the city provided input into each ship whether it be actually riveting the thing together or in a less direct role. Either way the entire city was touched by each launch and families took pride in each new ship. Our cities used to be proud hard-working places and it is no coincidence this has gone and attitudes have changed with the decline of industry and manufacturing.

My Grandad built locomotives in Glasgow and apparently the same sort of thing happened, when a locomotive was finished it was displayed to the local community.

 

[Cadiz Seagull]

I only watched a few minutes but it seemed to be exactly the same story as the one with Mary Portas and the knicker factory a few weeks ago?

Can't TV executives come up with any original ideas theses days, everything seems to be a copy of something else!

Or is it me?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

My Grandad built locomotives in Glasgow and apparently the same sort of thing happened, when a locomotive was finished it was displayed to the local community.

Quite. And on a smaller scale long gone local companies like Parker Pen in Newhaven. I worked for them briefly and for a while whenever I used to see the pens in shops I would tell people with a small amount of pride I helped make them.

 

[User removed 4]

Quite. And on a smaller scale long gone local companies like Parker Pen in Newhaven. I worked for them briefly and for a while whenever I used to see the pens in shops I would tell people with a small amount of pride I helped make them.

Seriously , al the stuff you have posted today, civic pride etc, seems to be stuff i thought you'd sneer at.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Seriously , al the stuff you have posted today, civic pride etc, seems to be stuff i thought you'd sneer at.

True. I do not think I have really written about this before though. I am critical of the British working class but only a certain element who I feel let me and themselves down-you're well versed with my targets.

For the record whilst my life is comfortable my values, beliefs and traditions are, and probably always will be, working class. I primarily vote Labour because for all their flaws I believe they are the best option for working class Britain. I generally support unions as well.

 

[ROSM]

Seriously , al the stuff you have posted today, civic pride etc, seems to be stuff i thought you'd sneer at.

I wouldn't sneer - I think this is something which any sane person would see is important to the recovery of this country.

I have said a number of times before that in my view the major failing of the 13 years of Labour wasnt so much the wars, or indeed the financial crash but actually the failure to promote and develop apprenticeships. The rush to University isnt sustainable (although I do think that some professions e.g. nursing have gained from closer links to University style education) and the need to develop a skill be it a trade or a manufacturing background is key.

 

[JCL666]

I only watched a few minutes but it seemed to be exactly the same story as the one with Mary Portas and the knicker factory a few weeks ago?

Can't TV executives come up with any original ideas theses days, everything seems to be a copy of something else!

Or is it me?

I think it's because there is a geniune revival in these things.

 

[raymondbriggs]

I doubt those figures can be true. The financial sector is roughly 14% of GDP, and manufacturing certainly isn't 28%.

Manufacturing is still higher than the financial sector despite the parasites in the financial sector sucking the "value"out of British manufacturing whilst denying manufacturing finance and loans.

My figures for 2002-2008 are true and the taxes paid by our largest sector at that time were just slightly higher than the billions pumped in to save the banks.

British manufacturing is bigger than you think and it's likely to grow - Telegraph

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

at the risk of this turning into the mutual admiration society, i have to say i agree with all of this, we can learn from the germans, i was also in zurich recently , having lunch with a frenchman , who's view, was that the germans/swiss etc have a set of rules, and just follow them implicitly, hence their countries "work", and ours to a certain extent, doesnt.

Out of interest did you lunch partner mention what these rules are?

 

[beorhthelm]

I doubt those figures can be true. The financial sector is roughly 14% of GDP, and manufacturing certainly isn't 28%.

you question it, yet dont provide anything to disprove it? i think its difficult to pin down as it depends on year and what a given source is counting, but in 5 minutes i've found UK manufacturing anything from 12-22%. its consistant with what i read about the economy, including the little untold secret that manufacturing is today worth more in real terms than it ever has in history. whats changed is we shifted away from "dirty" industry and high labour intensive manufactoring. the point about services and the finance sector is they grew an awfull lot more than manufacturing. just as well, as we'd be a damn sight poorer over all if it hadn't.

 

[beorhthelm]

We need to give the youth trade apprenticeships for sure, but we need to create the jobs. Germany has an under-25s unemployment figure which is currently a third of ours. [...] Stream of consciousness over.

joining the love in agree in princple. however there are some rotten social ills that have crept in then need weeding out. I recall a story from a year or two ago about a steelworks in south London who offered a couple of apprenticeships through the local schools. they had about a dozen or so applicants, majority from recently settle east european lads. asking the schools for feed back they were told the kids didnt want a dirty job, they all wanted to work in an office or shop.

 

[beorhthelm]

aopps