Holocaust Denial, a crime ?

[GT49er]

Holocaust denial a crime? - well, maybe not; just sick. Secure mental hospitals are thankfully available.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

What about relegation denial?

 

[coventrygull]

What about relegation denial?

Im in denial

 

[GT49er]

What about relegation denial?

A position that is morally defencible until it is mathematically certain.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Not for their beliefs, for their perceived race, or imperfections. Not all Jewish people believed the Old Testament to be the total truth, any more than all 'perfect' Germans believed the New Testament was the literal truth.

What we call the Holocaust was imposed on anybody that did not fit the 'official' view of perfection. The biggest group was Jewish; Gypsies, the disabled, mentally ill, all were subjected to the same treatment.

I don't think many were asked what they believed, and if they were, that the answer made the slightest difference either way.

It was a propoganda idea to unite a divided Germany, creating a scape goat for their counties woes and to help unite people behind a political party, bringing it to power, and the rest is history.

It's like todays recession being entirely blamed on fat cat bankers, when the responsabilties for the financial crisis lie with everyone from politicians to individuals willing to risk living beyond their means and everything in between. The difference is scale, how extreme it becomes - the jews were held responsable for the woes of Germany as they tended to be the people who held the important positions in society, especially financial areas, but in reality were responsable for alot of the wealth creation in pre war Germany.

The trouble arises when people join the bandwagon, going along with what is popular and not necessarily what is right, large parts of the German population were unaware of the extermination of the Jews in death camps. Wars are a time when propaganda goes into over drive, and the emeny is pictured as pure evil and must be stopped / destroyed (such as baby killer soldiers or baby eaters during earlier wars) it becomes a kind of moral crusade against an outrage, in this case it was pre war, but designed to have the same effect amoungst the population.

It later evoled into the idea of a "pure Aryian race" hence the persecution of those who did not fit the ideal.

In Germany, I wonder if it was made a crime because straight after the war people distrusted the victors after years of propoganda against them, and might have thought the concentration camps horror were invented as a way to make the victors seem to have the moral edge? especially if the population was largely unaware it was happening in the first place.

 

[Easy 10]

It was a propoganda idea to unite a divided Germany, creating a scape goat for their counties woes and to help unite people behind a political party, bringing it to power, and the rest is history.

It's like todays recession being entirely blamed on fat cat bankers, when the responsabilties for the financial crisis lie with everyone from politicians to individuals willing to risk living beyond their means and everything in between. The difference is scale, how extreme it becomes - the jews were held responsable for the woes of Germany as they tended to be the people who held the important positions in society, especially financial areas, but in reality were responsable for alot of the wealth creation in pre war Germany.

The trouble arises when people join the bandwagon, going along with what is popular and not necessarily what is right, large parts of the German population were unaware of the extermination of the Jews in death camps. Wars are a time when propaganda goes into over drive, and the emeny is pictured as pure evil and must be stopped / destroyed (such as baby killer soldiers or baby eaters during earlier wars) it becomes a kind of moral crusade against an outrage, in this case it was pre war, but designed to have the same effect amoungst the population.

It later evoled into the idea of a "pure Aryian race" hence the persecution of those who did not fit the ideal.

In Germany, I wonder if it was made a crime because straight after the war people distrusted the victors after years of propoganda against them, and might have thought the concentration camps horror were invented as a way to make the victors seem to have the moral edge? especially if the population was largely unaware it was happening in the first place.

Indeed. And ignorance is not an excuse.
The images of townsfolk forced to attend the liberated camps at Dachau and Sachsenhausen, to see the horrors and atrocities that had been committed yards from their own doorsteps, and (in some cases) made to help clear away the corpses...turning a blind eye is almost as bad as jumping on the bandwagon, and an offence for which they were rightly punished.

 

[ATFC Seagull]

the Nazis made a rope for their own necks in my opinion, encourage the local sympathisers to their cause and then document nearly everything they did ............ the rests history , Rudolph Hoess, Auschwitz camp commandant spilt the beans while awaiting trial ,cant imagine he had anything to lose by lying

They went nuts trying to hide all the evidence when they realised the war was turning however - that's always struck me as quite odd - as if they were going to get away with it by that stage!

 

[Austrian Gull]

A position that is morally defencible until it is mathematically certain.

Irving was indeed sent to prison in Austria as holocaust denial is a crime here too.
The case of the excommunicated bishops (and holocaust deniers) welcomed back into the church has been a big story here. In fact, the Vatican has appointed quite a few hardline priests to positions of power since Ratzinger beame Pope (an 81 year old German ).