Holocaust Denial, a crime ?

[seagullsovergrimsby]

It is a crime in Germany

I think it's wrong to make it a crime here (or for it to be a crime in Germany for that matter) because the holocaust was the persecution of a group of people for their belief, and yet the result of this legislation would be to persecute those whose belief it is that it didn't happen.

The Holocaust also meant extermination for the physically and mentally disabled , communists , homosexuals , POWs from Slavic countries along with those identified as being of Jewish extraction.

 

[NMH]

The Holocaust also meant extermination for the physically and mentally disabled , communists , homosexuals , POWs from Slavic countries along with those identified as being of Jewish extraction.

Don't forget the gyppos, they persecuted a few pikeys innit.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

check out the axis history forum for a more detailed account on holocaust denial

 

[coventrygull]

check out the axis history forum for a more detailed account on holocaust denial

Any opinion Das?

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Don't forget the gyppos, they persecuted a few pikeys innit.

I forgot the gypsies , I think the Roma and other gypsy ethnicities came fairly close to eradication.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Any opinion Das?

the Nazis made a rope for their own necks in my opinion, encourage the local sympathisers to their cause and then document nearly everything they did ............ the rests history , Rudolph Hoess, Auschwitz camp commandant spilt the beans while awaiting trial ,cant imagine he had anything to lose by lying

 

[NMH]

I woulda thought this stuff was for the history books by now. A bit odd for people to want to deny history, but there ya go - lots of odd people about so what can you do?
Jews deny stuff that Christians and Catholics call history too.

Many people believe that the victors over Germany in WWI, were then vicariously partly to be blamed for WWII. Germany was on its' knees and with backs to the wall a Hitler was almost their only glimpse of relief. He had an easier sell, let's say. Naming a sectarian population of people (who tended to do a lot of business amongst themselves and did not apparently open their door to common Germans readily), was another target to apportion blame for their crises.

The aftermath of WWII was handled differently, and West Germany benefited - probably rebuilt and revived some time before Britain anyway. Now look, a united Germany, controlling European finances and business structures! Not too bad for a losing nation, eh?

While Germany is living now in the lap of luxury, the fallout really still is Israel and the exodus of Jews to a perceived 'promised land' - another oddity of history and beliefs.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

the Nazis made a rope for their own necks in my opinion, encourage the local sympathisers to their cause and then document nearly everything they did ............ the rests history , Rudolph Hoess, Auschwitz camp commandant spilt the beans while awaiting trial ,cant imagine he had anything to lose by lying

The Nazis believed the 3rd Reich would last a thousand years , which is why there was so much documentation. The intention was to have historical evidence to prove Aryan supremacy eliminating impurities.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I woulda thought this stuff was for the history books by now. A bit odd for people to want to deny history, but there ya go - lots of odd people about so what can you do?
Jews deny stuff that Christians and Catholics call history too.

Many people believe that the victors over Germany in WWI, were then vicariously partly to be blamed for WWII. Germany was on its' knees and with backs to the wall a Hitler was almost their only glimpse of relief. He had an easier sell, let's say. Naming a sectarian population of people (who tended to do a lot of business amongst themselves and did not apparently open their door to common Germans readily), was another target to apportion blame for their crises.

The aftermath of WWII was handled differently, and West Germany benefited - probably rebuilt and revived some time before Britain anyway. Now look, a united Germany, controlling European finances and business structures! Not too bad for a losing nation, eh?

While Germany is living now in the lap of luxury, the fallout really still is Israel and the exodus of Jews to a perceived 'promised land' - another oddity of history and beliefs.

lets give the jews a "homeland" ,no better than the nazis in their treatment of the palestinians over the years in my eyes

 

[Hungry Joe]

I've heard that in certain States in the USA you can be pistol-whipped for Moon Landing Denial.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

The Nazis believed the 3rd Reich would last a thousand years , which is why there was so much documentation. The intention was to have historical evidence to prove Aryan supremacy eliminating impurities.

joseph goebbels ,what was his thinking??

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I've heard that in certain States in the USA you can be pistol-whipped for Moon Landing Denial.

alabama

 

[zego]

It is a crime in Germany

I think it's wrong to make it a crime here (or for it to be a crime in Germany for that matter) because the holocaust was the persecution of a group of people for their belief, and yet the result of this legislation would be to persecute those whose belief it is that it didn't happen.

Not for their beliefs, for their perceived race, or imperfections. Not all Jewish people believed the Old Testament to be the total truth, any more than all 'perfect' Germans believed the New Testament was the literal truth.

What we call the Holocaust was imposed on anybody that did not fit the 'official' view of perfection. The biggest group was Jewish; Gypsies, the disabled, mentally ill, all were subjected to the same treatment.

I don't think many were asked what they believed, and if they were, that the answer made the slightest difference either way.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

joseph goebbels ,what was his thinking??

"Where are my nuts ?"

 

[Hennes]

lets give the jews a "homeland" ,no better than the nazis in their treatment of the palestinians over the years in my eyes

Halten Sie an der Lieferung des Mundgeschlechtes zu den Vagabundn, Sie übel riechender Idiot fest.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

"Where are my nuts ?"

eichmann, kaltenbrunner, frank, wolf, so many to choose from

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Halten Sie an der Lieferung des Mundgeschlechtes zu den Vagabundn, Sie übel riechender Idiot fest.

Does the last part of the sentence translate as "yet another NSC binfest" ?

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Halten Sie an der Lieferung des Mundgeschlechtes zu den Vagabundn, Sie übel riechender Idiot fest.

clever

 

[Chicken Runner61]

He is obviously a big fan of yours

 

[fatbadger]

Not a crime, just bad history.

I've read quite a lot of the holocaust denial literature, as well as quite a lot of the anti-denial literature. I've even had the pleasure of reading the 300-odd pages of the Irving v Lipstadt & Penguin Books judgement, which I wouldn't recommend unless you are an insomniac. I did so because I used to teach courses on historiography, and it is a particularly interesting example to use (and it gets brought up in many other historiographical debates eg "postmodernists can't argue against holocaust denial"/"oh yes they can").

Trying to get students to take holocaust denial seriously as a proposition is quite difficult. Nevertheless, my better students did so, in the spirit of free enquiry and the pleasure of the intellectual exercise. Having said that, no matter how much they were willing to take holocaust denial seriously as a proposition, once they had worked through the literature and tested it using historiographical reasoning, not one took it seriously as a statement of historical knowledge.