Cameron comes of age

[binky]

I would point you towards a hospital, but I am unsure of which of the local hospitals are still operating and admitting patients.

You don't want to do that... My mother in law is terrified of hospitals. She's seen too many of her close ones go in and not come out again.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

Bit rich you saying that when you've been taking comments made by "call me Dave" out of context and attributing all sorts of nonsense to him



Who said rabid Tory? Yes, she was a member of the ILP but renounced this AND her daughter's views and died before she could be selected as an official Conservative candidate. So that makes her a Tory.

Interestingly, the 1st woman mp was also a Tory. The first PM a Tory.

Just one of the articles on Emmeline:

http://www.vqronline.org/articles/2003/spring/rollyson-conservative-revolutionary/


Sorry if you lot don't like that. The truth is, there are people on here who pathologically hate the Tories and will listen to nothing by them because they've already made their minds up.

And they call themselves sophisticated, informed people.

Did you see my facts on how the Tories voted against the National Minimum Wage in 1997?

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

fair dos. Certainly wasn't Labour though - as much as some people on this board would have loved it.

I am left wing and have voted Labour all my life but I really couldn't give a shit if the first woman MP was Tory, Sinn Fein or Martian!

 

[DJ Leon]

fair dos. Certainly wasn't Labour though - as much as some people on this board would have loved it.

Is there a point here? Are you saying that the Conservative Party has been great for women?

 

[Buzzer]

My view is that his proposals serve the interests of a very narrow segment of the population and that Uncle Spielberg (and others) are simply WRONG to think that they will offer much to ordinary people.

The question is, of course, how long it will take people to realise this. If he can fool most of the people for long enough, he might win an election. If he can't (and I don't think he can) he will lose.

No the question is how you manage to get from a purely subjective comment like "I believe..." to a very objective comment about "hoodwinking" the electorate.

Your prejudices are very much alive and well on this and numerous other threads.

 

[Buzzer]

Did you see my facts on how the Tories voted against the National Minimum Wage in 1997?

and your point is?

Like I said, parties and people change. Except anti-Tories like you.

 

[Buzzer]

Is there a point here? Are you saying that the Conservative Party has been great for women?

Yes. The point is that unsurprisingly, the Tories are not all the demons and anti-democrats that people like you would have us believe. And your glorious Labour party weren't the trailblazers in giving people equality.

It's actually a damn sight more pertinent than the anti-Tory shite that's been posted on here in the last few days.

 

[Yorkie]

Does anyone know of any politician who is honest? It doesn't matter which party they belong to, I cannot see what difference it makes.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Funny this. It is the labour Government that are supporting the Business Links, providing a wide range of business support to businesses. In London, it is a £20 million a year contract to support busnesses. In addition, we have the £9 million Manufacturing Advice Service, to improve efficiencies, processes in businesses, moving businesses to lean manufacturing. We have Supply London, assisting businesses to improve their supply chain and how they tender for contracts. We have Train to Gain, helping businesses to improve management and their workforce. We have Selective Financial Investment, a grant to improve businesses competitiveness.

We have UK Export, helping businesses to improve their access to internal markets and businesses. I could go on and on. Never b4 are so many businesses being improved and all under a Labour Government.

Oh, and Gordon Brown just gave the green light for Crossrail which will drag London transport links kicking and screaming into the 21st Century. And the Olympics will change the face of another huge patch of London wasteland forever. Solid achievements by anybody's standards aye?

 

[Buzzer]

Here is your proof that Toreis have voted against the National Minimum Wage:

Party Summary
Votes by party, red entries are votes against the majority for that party.

What is Tell? '+1 tell' means that in addition one member of that party was a teller for that division lobby.

What are Boths? An MP can vote both aye and no in the same division. The boths page explains this.

What is Turnout? This is measured against the total membership of the party at the time of the vote.
Party Ayes Noes Both Turnout
Con 0 145 (+2 tell) 0 90.7%
Lab 352 (+2 tell) 0 0 84.9%
LDem 26 0 0 56.5%
PC 2 0 0 50.0%
SNP 5 0 0 83.3%
UKU 1 0 0 100.0%
UU 1 0 0 10.0%
Total: 387 145 0 83.0%

To see this better look at this link and scroll down:

http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/division.php?date=1997-12-16&number=120

Hang on - this is all irrelevant. You said that the Tories VOTED AGAINST EVERY INCREASE. I was never disputing the fact that the Tories opposed the mimimum wage in 1997.

You knew all this anyway as you were citing this fictitious assertion that the Tories have voted against increases to back up your argument that you don't believe the Tories can change.

So when you state the following:

...But my argument about the minimum wage is about facts and not my opinion.

Don't forget to add the words spin and lies.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I think the NHS has been a failure. MRSA is still rampant, lots of local hospitals face closure, budgets are not being met and consultants are being paid millions to sort out the mess left by managers and insufficient funding.

Yes there is still MSRA but you're not looking at the big picture. More new hospitals and new hospital wings have been built under Labour in 10 years than for the entire 18 years of Tory rule. There are more doctors and nurses than ever before. And crucially, in the main, people do not have to wait years to get seen by a specialist. Remember how long people had to wait for an operation under the Conservatives? We still have one of the best free national health services in the world. So you are very wrong Pav. It has actually been one of the great triumphs of the Labour government.

 

[Tooting Gull]

Yes there is still MSRA but you're not looking at the big picture. More new hospitals and new hospital wings have been built under Labour in 10 years than for the entire 18 years of Tory rule. There are more doctors and nurses than ever before. And crucially, in the main, people do not have to wait years to get seen by a specialist. Remember how long people had to wait for an operation under the Conservatives? We still have one of the best free national health services in the world. So you are very wrong Pav. It has actually been one of the great triumphs of the Labour government.

I'd agree with a lot of that, it is easy to forget how bad it was and how much better it is now in some key areas.

I would, though, question the strategic decisions behind the move to close down more local hospitals and leave people with often very long distances to get specialist, or even A&E and maternity care. It's not the way forward.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

and your point is?

Like I said, parties and people change. Except anti-Tories like you.

Sorry if you lot don't like that. The truth is, there are people on here who pathologically hate the Tories and will listen to nothing by them because they've already made their minds up.

My point was in reply to your statement above. I printed the truth and it was anti Tory. But I agree with you the Tories must have some good policies, I for one as it kills me to say agree with the stamp duty being raised that was mentioned in the Conservative Party Conference.

You said parties and people change unlike me. We can take it as given that the Labour party has changed and that David Cameron is trying to change the Tory party, but are you saying that it is bad if someone like me does not wish to change their political allegiance ever in their lifetime?
Have you changed the party you vote for in your lifetime?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

No the question is how you manage to get from a purely subjective comment like "I believe..." to a very objective comment about "hoodwinking" the electorate.

Your prejudices are very much alive and well on this and numerous other threads.

No. No. No. No. No.

YOU have prejudices. I make careful judgements.

That's how political debate works.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

Hang on - this is all irrelevant. You said that the Tories VOTED AGAINST EVERY INCREASE. I was never disputing the fact that the Tories opposed the mimimum wage in 1997.

You knew all this anyway as you were citing this fictitious assertion that the Tories have voted against increases to back up your argument that you don't believe the Tories can change.

So when you state the following:



Don't forget to add the words spin and lies.

Buzzer you must be getting me confused with someone else on this thread, I have just checked the entire thread and did not say " the Tories VOTED AGAINST EVERY INCREASE"
I was not using that to prove the Tories cannot change where do you get the idea that I think that? I was just saying that they initially voted against it in response to Uncle Spielberg's ironic attack on it being too small when he is now thinking of voting for the party that initially opposed it.

Why have you added the spin and lies thing? The bit I posted was fact, no Tory voted for the National Minimum Wage in 1997 according to the parliamentary records.

 

[simonsimon]

Cameron was a member of the elitist Bullingham Club at university, which specialised in hedonistic drunken parties at high class restaurants, and then proceeded to vandalise these venues. The damage being paid for out of their trust funds.
Should the Tory Party be elected, then this scenario would be applied to the whole of society, and the working classes will again suffer.

 

[Gully]

Yorkie - I think that bloke, the ex-TV presenter with the white suits, who was elected to parliament was pretty honest...that was part of his election manifesto, in fact he was brutally honest and only stood for one term, as promised.

 

[Yorkie]

Yorkie - I think that bloke, the ex-TV presenter with the white suits, who was elected to parliament was pretty honest...that was part of his election manifesto, in fact he was brutally honest and only stood for one term, as promised.

Martin Bell.

 

[Buzzer]

Buzzer you must be getting me confused with someone else on this thread, I have just checked the entire thread and did not say " the Tories VOTED AGAINST EVERY INCREASE"
I was not using that to prove the Tories cannot change where do you get the idea that I think that? I was just saying that they initially voted against it in response to Uncle Spielberg's ironic attack on it being too small when he is now thinking of voting for the party that initially opposed it.

Why have you added the spin and lies thing? The bit I posted was fact, no Tory voted for the National Minimum Wage in 1997 according to the parliamentary records.

fair enough. Apologies - getting my wires crossed. In my defence, your honour, I've had sod all sleep and am not completely compos mentis.

Personally, I've always supported the idea that if employers can't be trusted to pay someone a fair rate for a job they really ought not be in the business of having employees so am in favour of a minimum wage.

 

[Buzzer]

Cameron was a member of the elitist Bullingham Club at university, which specialised in hedonistic drunken parties at high class restaurants, and then proceeded to vandalise these venues. The damage being paid for out of their trust funds.
Should the Tory Party be elected, then this scenario would be applied to the whole of society, and the working classes will again suffer.

Thankyou for that wonderful political insight. I'm sure lots of people will take your moralising on the Bullingham club so much more seriously what with the pathetic spliff smilies.