[Politics] Are Labour going to turn this country around?

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Is Labour going to turn the country around

  • Yes

    Votes: 138 26.5%
  • No

    Votes: 315 60.6%
  • Fence

    Votes: 67 12.9%

  • Total voters
    520


Mellor 3 Ward 4

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2004
10,563
saaf of the water

Right, this isn’t party political, so let’s nip that in the bud right now. This is an ongoing issue under successive political parties, but it’s coming to a head. UKIP was the warning, Reform are the real deal.

Blair had a policy of actively encouraging broader immigration for study and work, and lauded multiculturalism as the future of Britain.

(https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/immigration-legacy-tony-blair)

View attachment 201658

Since the door was opened under New Labour, immigration both controlled and uncontrolled has spiralled under successive governments. Brexit, supported by the Tories and the collective right, has caused immigration to reach a nadir whereby the government is largely toothless to act in the interests of Britain, without being labelled with the “far right” brush. The ECHR regulates our actions.

Starmer’s new proposals are just performative pandering, reacting off the back of a very poor election performance. This is the stock “we’re listening” response we’ve seen from successive governments on this issue. Tories had the mental Rwanda plan, Labour are going after care-workers (rather than, say, the criminal operations which use care-work as a front to attract vulnerable people to Britain for a life of modern slavery).

Blustering and paying little attention to what some people are (rightly or wrongly, depending on your viewpoint) actually upset about, is playing into Reform’s hands.

Just by listening to what people are actually saying, I’ve learned what people in affected communities are angry about.

They’re not angry about care-workers being essentially trafficked here from poor countries with a promise of a better life (but they should be).

They’re angry because

View attachment 201659

Having the net equivalent of the entire population of Northumberland or Dorset immigrate to the UK year on year is unsustainable.

Natives don’t understand why they can’t get appointments with their overburdened NHS services, why crime rates and poverty rates are rising in their towns, and yes, in some towns and cities why communities are so racially segregated. Ask the people of Blackburn what it’s like being an Asian person entering certain areas, or a white person entering others.

Add the ever-present threat of Islamist terror as we’ve seen in Europe, particularly Germany, people are bubbling.

If Starmer thinks this will win votes from Reform voters, he is sorely mistaken.

(I shouldn’t need to say this, but it’s NSC so I’m obliged, f*** the Tories, f*** Reform, f*** Farage, f*** Tommy Robinson, f*** racists - this isn’t a race issue, it’s an immigration thing - and if you can’t tell the difference or lump them all in together, then I won’t be wasting my time on you).
Labour running scared of Reform - does anyone think this would have been announced (or gone this far) if the recent election results (and polls) weren't so bad for Labour.
 
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Moshe Gariani

Well-known member
Mar 10, 2005
12,354
Superb policy and personal delivery from Keir Starmer. He is clearly on course to become established as the best Prime Minister since WW2.
 


abc

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2007
1,591
I don't think you are speaking for 'everyone' you may not pay the tax you are supposed to but lots of people do, including me. I am in favour of taxes, even though I they apply to me.

I am going to go out on a limb here and assume you are not a billionaire to make the point that for me a billionaire not paying the taxes they should is far more consequential that you not paying yours.

To me you and the billionaire are both immoral and selfish and you should both pay up. The only difference is that one has far wider consequences than the other.

I am not sure how this is hypocritical l, although it does explain why you are why you don't feel that people should pay their taxes.

You’ve lost me there. I pay my taxes and I just think everyone should do the same whether a billionaire or not. How does that make me immoral and selfish?
 


dsr-burnley

Well-known member
Aug 15, 2014
2,964
I heard in the radio someone claiming that if they taxes everyone who has £20m or more (assets, cash? Dunno) an extra 2% on their wealth, this would raise £21bn.

Is this feasible? Accurate? Possible?
It wouldn't raise it for very long, I don't think. If someone is expecting say 5% p.a. return on their capital the 45% tax would be 2.25% of the capital value; add another 2% wealth tax and you're taxing in effect 85% of the income. People would move their cash (or themselves) abroad to avoid it.
 


BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
19,925
You’ve lost me there. I pay my taxes and I just think everyone should do the same whether a billionaire or not. How does that make me immoral and selfish?
It's doesn't, it doesn't make you a hypocrite either.

I am not sure what his exchange has been about, we appear to agree. 👌
 
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TomandJerry

Well-known member
Oct 1, 2013
12,770
"Now in a diverse nation like ours, and I celebrate that, these rules become even more important.

Without them, we risk becoming an island of strangers, not a nation that walks forward together.

I’m promising it [net migration] will fall significantly, and I do want to get it down by the end of this parliament, significantly. That is what this plan is intended to achieve.

I want to be very clear on this, if we do need to take further steps, if we do need to do more to release pressure on housing and our public services, then mark my words we will."

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-foreign-workers-uk-politics-latest-live-news
 


abc

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2007
1,591
Superb policy and personal delivery from Keir Starmer. He is clearly on course to become established as the best Prime Minister since WW2.

So whilst his speech may be cat nip to Reform voters, do you think it is a good thing that care homes (who ultimately look after the elderly most vulnerable in our society) are going to be massively short of carers?
 


bazbha

Active member
Mar 18, 2011
321
Hailsham
"Now in a diverse nation like ours, and I celebrate that, these rules become even more important.

Without them, we risk becoming an island of strangers, not a nation that walks forward together.

I’m promising it [net migration] will fall significantly, and I do want to get it down by the end of this parliament, significantly. That is what this plan is intended to achieve.

I want to be very clear on this, if we do need to take further steps, if we do need to do more to release pressure on housing and our public services, then mark my words we will."

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-foreign-workers-uk-politics-latest-live-news
I’m promising it [net migration] will fall significantly, and I do want to get it down by the end of this parliament, significantly. That is what this plan is intended to achieve.

About as believable as the one about our fuel bills going down by £300 a year & not a penny more on your council tax!
 






Mellor 3 Ward 4

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2004
10,563
saaf of the water
So whilst his speech may be cat nip to Reform voters, do you think it is a good thing that care homes (who ultimately look after the elderly most vulnerable in our society) are going to be massively short of carers?
Maybe pay carers more than supermarket shelf stackers and there wouldn't be such a shortage of carers (No disrepect to shelf stackers)
 
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clapham_gull

Legacy Fan
Aug 20, 2003
26,450
I'd have to see the detail regarding the care sector, something I know a little about.

Post Brexit there was a mad rush to import carers and a number fell into a trap of no fault of their own. Basically they were scammed.

They are saying these people are an "available" pool, but I really like to see how many have been identified or came forward.

You've had a lack of investment in community nursing. If a carer can't get hold of a doctor or nurse, they will call an ambulance and the person ends up (sometimes necessarily) in A&E.

.. and round and round we go.

I do think so (where possible) families need to take a bigger responsibility in looking after their elderly relatives and the system should make it so.

This would alleviate strain on the care system. It's no coincidence that many carers from abroad come from cultures where they simply move the relative in.
 
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clapham_gull

Legacy Fan
Aug 20, 2003
26,450
Maybe pay carers more than supermarket shelf stackers and there wouldn't be such a shortage of carers (No disrepect to shelf stackers)
But where does the money come from ?

Local councils no ? (who pay the mostly private care companies) and they are skint. The only real thing this Government has annoyed me about is their head in sand attitude to the crises in social care.

That does of course extend to pretty much every other party, except I think the Greens.
 


Curious Orange

Punxsatawney Phil
Jul 5, 2003
10,520
On NSC for over two decades...
Imagine a Tory saying that.... They'd be called a racist before you could say Winter Fule Allowance.

[paraphrasefatherted accent="irish"]
"So, Prime Minister, I hear you're racist now?"
[/paraphrasefatherted]
 




Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
31,626
Imagine a Tory saying that.... They'd be called a racist before you could say Winter Fule Allowance.
You seem to be ignoring the word 'soaring'.

One of the things I like about Starmer is the precision of his language. Not a word is wasted, he rarely makes an ambiguous statement.

It is a wondrous contrast to the bluster of Boris, the fantasising of Farage and the tripe from Trump.
 


Chicken Run

Member Since Jul 2003
NSC Patron
Jul 17, 2003
20,946
You seem to be ignoring the word 'soaring'.

One of the things I like about Starmer is the precision of his language. Not a word is wasted, he rarely makes an ambiguous statement.

It is a wondrous contrast to the bluster of Boris, the fantasising of Farage and the tripe from Trump.
Don’t forget the riddazle of Rishi
 


dsr-burnley

Well-known member
Aug 15, 2014
2,964
What they could do with shortage of carers is similar to what cruise ships do with their staff - allow the carers to come in, but not to bring their family and not to obtain rights to stay via marriage. They would be on minimum wage, I dare say, in this country which would be the equivalent of a big wage back home; and they would have (presumably) few living expenses and would work long hours while setting themselves up for a comfortable life back home.

Whether it would be morally right or politically doable, I wouldn't like to say - but it would be practical.
 


clapham_gull

Legacy Fan
Aug 20, 2003
26,450
What they could do with shortage of carers is similar to what cruise ships do with their staff - allow the carers to come in, but not to bring their family and not to obtain rights to stay via marriage. They would be on minimum wage, I dare say, in this country which would be the equivalent of a big wage back home; and they would have (presumably) few living expenses and would work long hours while setting themselves up for a comfortable life back home.

Whether it would be morally right or politically doable, I wouldn't like to say - but it would be practical.
The rules were changed over a year ago, you can't bring your family in .

You also have a fundamental misunderstanding of the role of carer.

Why would a care worker have "few" living expenses ? Do you think they don't pay rent, travel and food ?
 




Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
31,626
Something has to give as we have an ageing population, the care industry has 120,000 vacancies and admits its attempt to stimulate recruitment from UK citizens has "stagnated".
 




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