[News] Nigel Farage and Reform

[Bodian]

Stories like this:

Lynthia Calliste was due to be deported to Grenada after she and her son overstayed their six-month visitor visa.

However, Calliste argued deporting her would separate her from her husband, violating Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights - the right to a family life.

The Home Office disputed this, saying Vinakovs had every right to join her in Grenada.

Calliste said he “would be unable to tolerate the cuisine in Grenada” and “worries about the heat” due to it being much warmer than the UK and his native Latvia.

Judge Mark Blundell dismissed her appeal in November but she has remained in the UK, exhausting all stages of appeal"

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/uk/mum-a...ibbean-claiming-her-husband-doesnt-like-food/

l.

Which bit are you unhappy with?

Are you saying that a UK Human Rights Law should not include the right to a family life?

You do realise that she lost her argument don't you - so in fact the ECHR is not the reason she is still in the country. So what would getting rid of the ECHR have achieved in this specific case?

 

[TomandJerry]

Which bit are you unhappy with?

Are you saying that a UK Human Rights Law should not include the right to a family life?

You do realise that she lost her argument don't you - so in fact the ECHR is not the reason she is still in the country. So what would getting rid of the ECHR have achieved in this specific case?

I suppose my frustration would be best aimed at why she was allowed to stay and not deported

 

[Bodian]

I suppose my frustration would be best aimed at why she was allowed to stay and not deported

But that appears to be nothing to do with the ECHR. You cited this specific case - so what would changing ECHR for a UK version achieve?

 

[TomandJerry]

But that appears to be nothing to do with the ECHR. You cited this specific case - so what would changing ECHR for a UK version achieve?

I accept that, and I was wrong to do so. Starting to realise I was going down a rabbit hole of the wrong sorts, believing half truths.

It's been an eye opening couple of days, to be fair

 

[Guinness Boy]

Maybe if I was still a contractor yes indeed ! Previous governments have killed that as well. Dubai is calling for me.

Dubai's tax gets mentioned on social media posts regularly and it's the home of a couple of prominent Reform fans. I was there a few weeks ago and there are a few other things about it that could be relevant to this thread.

First and foremost, the vast majority of people there are immigrants, around 80%. And there's a very broad mix of people and cultures. Westerners can drink and go to the beach - within reason. But it is baseline Islamic. Immigration workers at the airport don't wear a uniform as such and hand you a sim card for the duration of your stay. From then on the whole immigration system works on face recognition and you don't need to see a human. But, of course, that's not the result of liberal democracy. It's a federal authoritarian monarchy with a terrible record on human rights. Basically Singapore in the Middle East. And the facial recognition, while convenient, is also Orwellian.

When I was going @hart's shirt was good enough to provide me with extensive and excellent visitor info, which was immensely kind and I really liked the place. I like particularly how people rub along no matter where they're from. But I wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of the government.

My suspicion is, with Reform, that they quite fancy the authoritarian control and tax position but I think achieving it by having 80% of the population as immigrants would give most of their voters a coronary.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Single market / customs union membership

We already had that as members of the EU, so how would our economy get STRONGER by Brexiting?

It makes no sense to keep paying the same fees, but as a rule taker rather than a rule maker - even more so when as members we already had opt outs for Schengen and the Euro. Furthermore, by leaving the EU we'd still inherit the new problem of Channel boat migrants which we never had as members, which has cost million of pounds, hundreds of lives and caused so much political instability and divisiveness.

Labour are trying to improve wealth inequality by taxing non-doms more, but millionaires are leaving the UK at a rate of 30 every day. To offset this laudable policy they HAVE to have a Customs Union with the EU but by not pursuing this they are leaving the door open for Farage who will reinstate the low tax status for non-doms, claim it as a victory for growth and job creation but simultaneously increasing wealth inequality.

 

[TomandJerry]

We already had that as members of the EU, so how would our economy get STRONGER by Brexiting?

It makes no sense to keep paying the same fees, but as a rule taker rather than a rule maker - even more so when as members we already had opt outs for Schengen and the Euro. Furthermore, by leaving the EU we'd still inherit the new problem of Channel boat migrants which we never had as members, which has cost million of pounds, hundreds of lives and caused so much political instability and divisiveness.

Labour are trying to improve wealth inequality by taxing non-doms more, but millionaires are leaving the UK at a rate of 30 every day. To offset this laudable policy they HAVE to have a Customs Union with the EU but by not pursuing this they are leaving the door open for Farage who will reinstate the low tax status for non-doms, claim it as a victory for growth and job creation but simultaneously increasing wealth inequality.

Well, we'd be in a better economic situation than we are currently in, and kept a portion of Brexiters happy. Farage would have still been there crying for us to leave the single mark and customs union

I'm currently in a position where I'm trying to refind my political position - and this thread has helped - and appreciate all those who have contributed.

 

[dwayne]

Dubai's tax gets mentioned on social media posts regularly and it's the home of a couple of prominent Reform fans. I was there a few weeks ago and there are a few other things about it that could be relevant to this thread.

First and foremost, the vast majority of people there are immigrants, around 80%. And there's a very broad mix of people and cultures. Westerners can drink and go to the beach - within reason. But it is baseline Islamic. Immigration workers at the airport don't wear a uniform as such and hand you a sim card for the duration of your stay. From then on the whole immigration system works on face recognition and you don't need to see a human. But, of course, that's not the result of liberal democracy. It's a federal authoritarian monarchy with a terrible record on human rights. Basically Singapore in the Middle East. And the facial recognition, while convenient, is also Orwellian.

When I was going @hart's shirt was good enough to provide me with extensive and excellent visitor info, which was immensely kind and I really liked the place. I like particularly how people rub along no matter where they're from. But I wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of the government.

My suspicion is, with Reform, that they quite fancy the authoritarian control and tax position but I think achieving it by having 80% of the population as immigrants would give most of their voters a coronary.

Yep I've been many times over the last 20 years although haven't been since Covid times so I understand it's exploded even more since then and the traffic is a nightmare now.

I respect the fact that Dubai makes people live by their rules and I like the fact that it's so multi cultural, which is one of the reasons I love London. Personally wouldn't want to live there long term because of the heat but it appeals to make some quick tax free money with the Mrs for 2-3 years then semi retire.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Well, we'd be in a better economic situation than we are currently in, and kept a portion of Brexiters happy. Farage would have still been there crying for us to leave the single mark and customs union

Less good is better than bad, but still worse than good.

In practice, Brexit with Single Market / Customs Union was never even seriously discussed as an option because that was acknowledged as being worse than what we had. The only discussion in town was status quo (i.e. better than most people realised at the time) vs the sunny upland of Brexit with 'they need us more than we need them', 'the easiest deal in the world', free to make trade deals with anyone, starting with USA.

I don't want to rehash Brexit debates, but the rise of Farage means that he must be held account for the Brexit havoc he has created, and made to explain his economic plans and his version of Brexit so it can be held up to scrutiny. So far he has answered to no one and spouted from the sidelines.

If Reform is to be taken seriously then the media need to start asking proper, probing questions because Reform are succeeding in presenting themselves to all things to all people when what they are is a more extreme, right wing version of the Tories and they will f*ck the working people of this country by reducing welfare, the NHS and increasing wealth inequality.

 

[TomandJerry]

Less good is better than bad, but still worse than good.

In practice, Brexit with Single Market / Customs Union was never even seriously discussed as an option because that was acknowledged as being worse than what we had. The only discussion in town was status quo (i.e. better than most people realised at the time) vs the sunny upland of Brexit with 'they need us more than we need them', 'the easiest deal in the world', free to make trade deals with anyone, starting with USA.

I don't want to rehash Brexit debates, but the rise of Farage means that he must be held account for the Brexit havoc he has created, and made to explain his economic plans and his version of Brexit so it can be held up to scrutiny. So far he has answered to no one and spouted from the sidelines.

If Reform is to be taken seriously then the media need to start asking proper, probing questions because they are succeeding in presenting themselves to all things to all people when what they are is a more extreme, right wing version of the Tories and they will f*ck the working people of this country by reducing welfare, the NHS and increasing wealth inequality.

And I completely agree - anyone with a chance of becoming Prime Minister/an leader of the opposition (which Farage has decided to call himself and his party) need to be properly questioned

 

[hart's shirt]

Dubai is calling for me.

You'll be very welcome.

Let me know when you're planning on making it a permanent residence and I'll put you in touch with my real estate mates.

 

[dwayne]

You'll be very welcome.

Let me know when you're planning on making it a permanent residence and I'll put you in touch with my real estate mates.

Cheers

 

[Guinness Boy]

Yep I've been many times over the last 20 years although haven't been since Covid times so I understand it's exploded even more since then and the traffic is a nightmare now.

I respect the fact that Dubai makes people live by their rules and I like the fact that it's so multi cultural, which is one of the reasons I love London. Personally wouldn't want to live there long term because of the heat but it appeals to make some quick tax free money with the Mrs for 2-3 years then semi retire.

I'm sure it's on your circuit. I'm not sure how many Reform fan boys realise it's completely multi cultural with an 80% foreigner rate though. Ot that the place runs on facial recognition tech. So I thought I'd post the details for them.

Good plan if you can do it but tax free work in that area has been going on as long as I can remember.

What I will say is that in two weeks I flew Emirates Economy and BA Premium Economy (to Tokyo, our company will only do PE at 10 hours or over). Emirates Economy was better than the higher priced British flight. Better food, better service, equivalent seat. At some point we've let one of our great national institutions end up as a sort of sub Ryan Air but with a flag.

Luckily Andrea Jenkins will take us all back to the 1950s so top service will be revived, albeit with unaffordable prices, twin props, regular crashing and a smoking section.

 

[hart's shirt]

Dubai's tax gets mentioned on social media posts regularly and it's the home of a couple of prominent Reform fans. I was there a few weeks ago and there are a few other things about it that could be relevant to this thread.

First and foremost, the vast majority of people there are immigrants, around 80%. And there's a very broad mix of people and cultures. Westerners can drink and go to the beach - within reason. But it is baseline Islamic. Immigration workers at the airport don't wear a uniform as such and hand you a sim card for the duration of your stay. From then on the whole immigration system works on face recognition and you don't need to see a human. But, of course, that's not the result of liberal democracy. It's a federal authoritarian monarchy with a terrible record on human rights. Basically Singapore in the Middle East. And the facial recognition, while convenient, is also Orwellian.

When I was going @hart's shirt was good enough to provide me with extensive and excellent visitor info, which was immensely kind and I really liked the place. I like particularly how people rub along no matter where they're from. But I wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of the government.

My suspicion is, with Reform, that they quite fancy the authoritarian control and tax position but I think achieving it by having 80% of the population as immigrants would give most of their voters a coronary.

Glad you had a great time, GB, and that I could help in some small way. You've been posting recently so I presume that the locals were happy enough!

As far as the other stuff goes, I'd be happy to fill in the blanks from personal experience over a pint off the record and not on here!

As @bhafc99 would testify, I've got a few stories...

 

[hart's shirt]

What I will say is that in two weeks I flew Emirates Economy and BA Premium Economy (to Tokyo, our company will only do PE at 10 hours or over). Emirates Economy was better than the higher priced British flight. Better food, better service, equivalent seat. At some point we've let one of our great national institutions end up as a sort of sub Ryan Air but with a flag.

Luckily Andrea Jenkins will take us all back to the 1950s so top service will be revived, albeit with unaffordable prices, twin props, regular crashing and a smoking section.

It's a disgrace what has been allowed to happen to BA.

In the 1980s days of the jaw-dropping Face advert (with Yanni's Aria adaptation of Delibes' Flower Duet as the soundtrack), BA called itself The World's Favourite Airline. Bringing people together from all around the world. The colour, the diversity, the richness.

The very few times I flew abroad, I used to peruse the in-flight magazine and see the destinations. A long haul flight complete with amenities and in-flight entertainment would've been a dream. It may have been a child's imagination, but there was real quality on offer from a healthy national pride.

Now Britain places value on low-cost, low-quality from clothing to food. With travel, it's purely about getting from A to B rather than the experience. It's dumbed itself down on quality. And as you say, BA is now Ryanair with a flag.

It's worth remembering that Emirates isn't even the UAE's national carrier. That's Etihad. So you've got an airline from one emirate (Dubai) providing you with a better experience and a cheaper price in Economy than Britain's national carrier in Premium Economy.

And now they can't even keep their business travellers happy with the change to the BA Executive Club frequent flyers program. It's been a downwards spiral now for the last 2 decades.

But here's a memory of happier times...

 

[Berty23]

I am deeply shocked that when we negotiate deals as a weak partner we get bad deals. No one could possibly have ever seen this coming. We are GREAT Britain. We once ruled the world so we should get EVERYTHING we want.

Sadly with deals when you have the weaker hand you might have to concede more ground. Is anyone actually surprised?

 

[BadFish]

Who is saying we should have unlimited immigration? I don’t believe any party has ever said that or wants That. Labour certainly don’t considering they are deporting people every day. All immigration is controlled with rules set in place restricting who can come to the UK. An absolutely monumentally stupid thing to say.
So in summary your whole argument is based upon an assumption that somewhere along the lines we are going to have unrestricted immigration, something that is never going to happen. Unbelievable

The question is those that are being smuggled in whether by lorry or in small boats. That is the issue we have here and what reform using as its battering ram. I waiting to hear HOW reform plan on stopping the small boats. I mean Ik’m not convinced when they can’t even vet their prospective counsellors/MP’s properly

This is the confusion that is prevalent with reform and their supports. They are always asking for sensible debate about immigration but how can you have one when they can't (or most probably won't) grasp the basics.

The cynic in me suspects that it a deliberate play by the right wing politicians and parties because they know that creating straw men arguments and conflating types on immigration is the only way this makes sense and their supporters stay angry.

One of the main indicators of this for me is that even after decades of banging on about immigration being too high, no one ever tells us what the appropriate number is. It's always 'less than what we have now!'

 

[BadFish]

See I find this interesting. Across this post and the post you're replying to we've got three pretty crucial industries:

Farming
Social Care
Building

And we need to bring people in to do these jobs, right? Which speaks to me of an inherent laziness in, well, us Brits.

We need food but seemingly don't want to farm it. We need people looked after but can't be f***ed to do it. Building? Pah, nah thanks mate.

I'm being quite facetious and generalising a lot here but there's some kernel of truth in it.

If Reform, or any other party come to think of it, actually gave a toss about the amount of people coming here surely one solution would be to get Lazy Johnny English off his fat arse and into the fields / nursing home / building sites. Get the locals doing the work so we don't need immigrants, right?

But they won't. Why? Because if we don't have immigrants then we don't have anyone to scapegoat and sensationalise and weaponise to win votes to keep rich people in power to continue this absolutely pointless pissing contest that we're all embroiled in.

f*** it's all so tedious.

/rant.

The problem is that to get people to work in areas they don't want to you need to offer decent money and decent security. In an age of low wages and zero hours contracts where is the incentive.

And we are back to a standard of living/wealth inequality issue. I would imagine that the party of the people has some top policies to direct the wealth back into the hands of the working man though.

Or are they suggesting tax cuts for their rich mates like the other shysters?

 

[BadFish]

** which is interestingly the decade @dsr-burnley wants to return to

Being in Burnley one could argue he hasn't left.

 

[BadFish]

Well no, but, it's the right thing to try and do.

I'd fully support a political party who would be serious about tackling such issues.

Check out the greens and socialists, they are usually keen on not supporting such things.