[News] Nigel Farage and Reform

[BBassic]

Maybe people don't want to do it because the pay in all cases is shit. Isn't economics supposed to fix this?

Trickle down? Yeah, any minute now that'll definitely start working.

 

[TomandJerry]

Third word persecution of minorities, war and famine are not easy nuts to crack.

Well no, but, it's the right thing to try and do.

I'd fully support a political party who would be serious about tackling such issues.

 

[Bry Nylon]

Farming
Social Care
Building

And we need to bring people in to do these jobs, right? Which speaks to me of an inherent laziness in, well, us Brits.

We need food but seemingly don't want to farm it.

So far as agriculture is concerned, it's not laziness, it's economics and having (at least) a basic quality of life. But if you are happy to share a static caravan with 6 or 7 other agency workers, have your rent and utilities deducted from your wages before you get paid and do 10+ hour days for minimum wage, then the work is there for you, I'm sure.

 

[WATFORD zero]

It's not just Stringer though:

"Jonathan Brash, the MP for Hartlepool, said the Government should exercise its “perfectly legitimate” right to deport criminals by saying ECHR Article 8 rights to a family life do not apply in such cases.

He is thought to be the first Labour MP to publicly declare that the Government should ignore the ECHR in order to return convicted foreign criminals back to their home countries."

And again, you are quoting articles (this time from a couple of months ago, with no source) and giving either the Daily Express' or your interpretation of what was said.

He doesn't say ignore the ECHR, he says

Jonathan Brash said: “I don’t think it’s a particularly controversial view to say that if our government wants to deport a foreign criminal, they should be able to. The ECHR allows for that in issues of public safety and national security. It’s perfectly legitimate for a government to say Article 8 is not applying here, we are deporting a foreign criminal.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/03/25/deport-all-foreign-criminals-says-labour-mp-attack-echr/

These are the sort of things that trolls do, and you've made it clear you're not one of those

 

[TomandJerry]

Yes that's twice you've quoted that same article about that same MP from the Daily Telegraph today. I would suggest that the reason the Daily Telegraph are all over it is because the other 400 odd Labour MP's don't agree with him, as I'm willing to bet the 70 odd LIb Dems, and a fair number of the 120 Tory MP's aren't.

It's really only the 5 reform MP's (if they can stop arguing amongst themselves), Him and a few far right Tory MP's who would even entertain the idea

You've now had over 50 posts in two days on what Reform policies you think appear good answered with lots of detail, facts and reasons why they may not be the good ideas that you think they are

Absolutely and that's my whole reason for this debate, I don't mind being proven wrong, or to have a more informed opinion.

Reform have a lot of policies (along with all the other parties) and I want the facts and details

 

[TomandJerry]

And again, you are quoting articles (this time from a couple of months ago, with no source, again) and giving either the Daily Express' or your interpretation of what was said.

He doesn't say ignore the ECHR, he says

Jonathan Brash said: “I don’t think it’s a particularly controversial view to say that if our government wants to deport a foreign criminal, they should be able to. The ECHR allows for that in issues of public safety and national security. It’s perfectly legitimate for a government to say Article 8 is not applying here, we are deporting a foreign criminal.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/03/25/deport-all-foreign-criminals-says-labour-mp-attack-echr/

These are the sort of things that trolls do, and you've made it clear you're not one of those

It's purely my interpretation of what has been said - my understanding of what's been said is that he is implying that ECHR can be ignored

And I'm trying to get better at quoting sources

 

[TomandJerry]

And again, you are quoting articles (this time from a couple of months ago, with no source) and giving either the Daily Express' or your interpretation of what was said.

He doesn't say ignore the ECHR, he says

Jonathan Brash said: “I don’t think it’s a particularly controversial view to say that if our government wants to deport a foreign criminal, they should be able to. The ECHR allows for that in issues of public safety and national security. It’s perfectly legitimate for a government to say Article 8 is not applying here, we are deporting a foreign criminal.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/03/25/deport-all-foreign-criminals-says-labour-mp-attack-echr/

These are the sort of things that trolls do, and you've made it clear you're not one of those

More than happy to be made correct on this one:

(He also makes comments on the ECHR in the article)

"The MP, who represents Pendle and Clitheroe in Lancashire, said too many voters felt the party is “not for them anymore”. He argued that there is “nothing economically left-wing” about high levels of immigration, and suggested Labour had the right priorities on immigration but had not yet done enough to bring down net migration levels.


Hinder also said that there is “less and less integration” in the UK, arguing that “we’ve been asleep at the wheel as a country”. There are “in many cases more parallel lives being lived” because of a lack of integration, he claimed."

https://labourlist.org/2025/04/hinder-blue-labour-immigration-debate/

 

[Thunder Bolt]

It'd be nice to have faith in our justice system so that it didn't need external examination

It is cooperation with 46 other countries.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Well no, but, it's the right thing to try and do.

I'd fully support a political party who would be serious about tackling such issues.

Unfortunately this would mean increasing overseas aid.
The sort of spending required is not a vote-winner.
It also gets messy. One either bungs loads of money into humanitarian aid,
or one ends up backing one side in military conflict.
The latter is almost inevitable when humanitarian aid is squandered or stolen, as it usually is.
Arguably our western interference is partly responsible for the absolute state of some nations.

Sadly persecution of minorities is endemic in many countries.
Unless we overthrow the governments, what can we do?
I used to favour intervention when I was younger
But we have seen what happens when the west steps into places like Iraq.
Unless 'we' set up a tame 'liberal' regime we just leave behind a mess when we ship out.
Then the nutters (like ISIS) step in.

So maybe we shouldn't trade with nations that mistreat their minorities.
But others (China especially) will do so.

No, this is a big ball of string with many loose threads
There are no simple solutions
And certainly none that can be implemented by the UK alone,
Unless we buy into throwing people back into the sea.
Unfortunately 'sensible discourse' is now no longer a vote winner.
Especially if it means spending money on foreigners

So Farage can offer any madcap solution he likes,
knowing he won't have to implement anything while in opposition.
And if he does get in he'll simply dismiss policy failure as plans sabotaged by woke establishment.
Because there are no simple solutions, and even he's not ready for murder in the channel.
He's mainly interested in getting richer, after all, let's not forget.

 

[TomandJerry]

It is cooperation with 46 other countries.

Absolutely, but why the need for 46 other countries to mark our own homework? Again, I'd like to be able to have faith in our own justice and courts they would follow the laws of the land.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the point you are trying to make

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Absolutely, but why the need for 46 other countries to mark our own homework? Again, I'd like to be able to have faith in our own justice and courts they would follow the laws of the land.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the point you are trying to make

Maybe you are, and I will correct my own post. It is 45 other countries as we are the 46th.
Ask yourself why Sir Winston Churchill wanted to start it, and why those other countries thought cooperation was a good idea.

It wasn't to correct Britain's homework.

 

[TomandJerry]

Unfortunately this would mean increasing overseas aid.
The sort of spending required is not a vote-winner.
It also gets messy. One either bungs loads of money into humanitarian aid,
or one ends up backing one side in military conflict.
The latter is almost inevitable when humanitarian aid is squandered or stolen, as it usually is.
Arguably our western interference is partly responsible for the absolute state of some nations.

Sadly persecution of minorities is endemic in many countries.
Unless we overthrow the governments, what can we do?
I used to favour intervention when I was younger
But we have seen what happens when the west steps into places like Iraq.
Unless 'we' set up a tame 'liberal' regime we just leave behind a mess when we ship out.
Then the nutters (like ISIS) step in.

So maybe we shouldn't trade with nations that mistreat their minorities.
But others (China especially) will do so.

No, this is a big ball of string with many loose threads
There are no simple solutions
And certainly none that can be implemented by the UK alone,
Unless we buy into throwing people back into the sea.
Unfortunately 'sensible discourse' is now no longer a vote winner.
Especially if it means spending money on foreigners

So Farage can offer any madcap solution he likes,
knowing he won't have to implement anything while in opposition.
And if he does get in he'll simply dismiss policy failure as plans sabotaged by woke establishment.
Because there are no simple solutions, and even he's not ready for murder in the channel.
He's mainly interested in getting richer, after all, let's not forget.

Thank you for the response - it's a lot to take in, I feel at lost as who to vote for in that regard then.

Labour, Reform and Conservative governments seem to be happy to cut overseas aid (unless I'm wrong).

What is the Lib Dem's stance on this?

 

[TomandJerry]

Maybe you are, and I will correct my own post. It is 45 other countries as we are the 46th.
Ask yourself why Sir Winston Churchill wanted to start it, and why those other countries thought cooperation was a good idea.

It wasn't to correct Britain's homework.

I have done some research -

"The ECHR is the European Convention on Human Rights. It was drafted in the aftermath of the Second World War and the Holocaust in an attempt to protect the people from the State, make sure the atrocities committed would never be repeated, and safeguard fundamental rights."

I suppose the point I'm trying to make is that I wouldn't want human rights to be removed, I certainly would not vote for that, along with voting for any party that would go along with similarities to what happened in Germany.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

So far as agriculture is concerned, it's not laziness, it's economics and having (at least) a basic quality of life. But if you are happy to share a static caravan with 6 or 7 other agency workers, have your rent and utilities deducted from your wages before you get paid and do 10+ hour days for minimum wage, then the work is there for you, I'm sure.

Lots of people including a family on my street came down from London in the late 60s early 70s to live just like that, picking fruit and suchlike, and ended up staying.
The matriarch then worked a s a domestic cleaner into the 90s, doing 4 jobs cash in hand, while hubby worked at Shepherd Neame.
Eventually she trained as a social worker (he drank himself to death).
Meanwhile we have Poles who came over to do unwanted jobs and stayed (most went home).
Movement of people. Immigration. Bettering one's self.
That was all fine till non white people started rocking up.
Despite what our pal in Sydney thinks, this has had no impact down our way.
But in peoples heads this is an invasion.

People don't seem to come over to work the fields then abscond.
And I have never seen the coach loads of fit young Eastern Europeans badly treated when they rock up to do their supermarket shop.
What people grumble about in their sitting rooms is of course beyond my radar.
But 'bunging out' the fruit pickers is never mentioned in public, not even by Reform.
It all seems rather queer though.
A total non problem that is weaponized by people who don't live here.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

"Blackley and Middleton South MP Graham Stringer told The Telegraph: “If the results are as bad as predicted on Thursday, the Labour Party mustn’t come out and say it’s a question of just communicating our policies better. Most of all, we need to take control of the borders. If that means renegotiating or changing our international obligations, then we need to do that. But we cannot continue to have open borders because of laws passed in the early 1950s.”"

We don’t have open borders so not sure what planet he’s on, it is was open borders you wouldn’t have people on small boats.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Thank you for the response - it's a lot to take in, I feel at lost as who to vote for in that regard then.

Labour, Reform and Conservative governments seem to be happy to cut overseas aid (unless I'm wrong).

What is the Lib Dem's stance on this?

Yes indeed - it is an overwhelming landscape to take in.
I think the Libs are keen to increase overseas aid, but it is all a bit doe-eyed -
not linked to liberalization, allowing women to vote, stopping persecuting minorities, executing gay people, etc.
I don't think the Liberals have thought it all through, they just want to 'help'.
Well meaning, but not a vote winner...and not likely to have any impact on 'the boats'.

I genuinely don't know what the solution is,
but I am not particularly bothered about 'the boats'.
I don't feel that I am being robbed..... and I am out of touch with hatred and anger.

Perhaps the changes Labour have made will slowly have some impact.
This means more co-operation with the EU, of course,
which some say we should not do - Farage being the leading protagonists here.

Labour can only do what will not get them booted out in 4 years.
So they are attacked by the left for not doing enough to help refugees,
and attacked by the right for trying to do something and (so far) achieving little that is visible to stop the boats.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

We don’t have open borders so not sure what planet he’s on, it is was open borders you wouldn’t have people on small boats.

As a Labour member I am aware that some Labour MPs shoot off their mouths from time to time.
I suspect the party will have a quiet word. Or a noisy one if he carries on.
This is clearly someone who thinks his constituency are all about to join The Lord Voldemort,
and has panicked. The twit.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

I have done some research -

"The ECHR is the European Convention on Human Rights. It was drafted in the aftermath of the Second World War and the Holocaust in an attempt to protect the people from the State, make sure the atrocities committed would never be repeated, and safeguard fundamental rights."

I suppose the point I'm trying to make is that I wouldn't want human rights to be removed, I certainly would not vote for that, along with voting for any party that would go along with similarities to what happened in Germany.

The ECHR does exactly that .. as Winston wanted.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Absolutely and that's my whole reason for this debate, I don't mind being proven wrong, or to have a more informed opinion.

Reform have a lot of policies (along with all the other parties) and I want the facts and details

We’ll find them … it’s not difficult. That’s what anyone with a modicum of intelligence would do.

 

[rippleman]

A cautionary tale of trying to do immigration the right way.

A neighbour and close friend is Ghanian. He emigrated to the UK in the 1960s. He held an executive position with BoC for decades and has subsequently worked on various charities (mostly environmental) and on public safety projects with senior police. He owns his own property and his two daughters were born and educated in the UK. His first wife sadly died about 10 years ago.

For some years he has been close to a lovely lady in Ghana and last April they wed. He is old school "everything by the book" so when he returned to UK in May 24 he set about getting her a settlement visa. Filled in endless, complex forms, gathered together piles of documents and submitted to the Home Office. He had been promised a final decision by 14 March. He returned to Ghana in early Feb to await his wife's visa to bring her home. He returned last week sans wife. No contact or communication from the Home Office at all.

It has cost him over £3K of savings so far for processing fees and legal guidance. His wife is trained nurse/pharmacist with no criminal record. She does not intend claiming benefits. She will not need housing. My friend has sufficient savings / pensions to be able to support her.

When you do things right this is how our government treats you. Is it any wonder so many take a cheaper, simpler route to get into this country?