[Politics] The Labour Government

[Kinky Gerbil]

under 18 are not considered adult though. does this change mean we're appling to all other legislation to consider them as adult, or just applies to voting? that's the problem with the logic, the change is inconsistent.

Quite - Happy for them to vote, as long as they are classed as adults elsewhere - in legal terms etc

 

[WATFORD zero]

under 18 are not considered adult though. does this change mean we're appling to all other legislation to consider them as adult, or just applies to voting? that's the problem with the logic, the change is inconsistent.

It's pretty consistent with taking full criminal responsibility at 10, Signing your own passport and taking part in dangerous performances at 12, Being locked up in secure accomodation at 13, Being able to work part time and at 14, Applying to join the Air Force or Navy, or be given a custodial sentence at 15, drinking beer, wine or cider with a meal, join the armed forces, leave school, work full time, rent a house, buy contraception, consent to sexual activity at 16, join the TA, give Blood, drive a car at 17, Buy a house or land, Join the fire service, watch x-rated movies, gamble, get tattoos at 18, adopt someone, teach driving or get an HGV licence at 21.

Completely consistent

 

[Hugo Rune]

under 18 are not considered adult though.

By whom? You can have legally have sex and get married in the UK (albeit taking a journey to NI or Scotchland to get your ring). The taxman does not ignore those who earn above the threshold aged under 18 either.

does this change mean we're applying to all other legislation to consider them as adult

Of course not. Classic straw man argument.

or just applies to voting? that's the problem with the logic, the change is inconsistent.

The logic I’m using is based specifically on ideological belief. Everyone over 16 should be able to vote. Nothing more, nothing less.

The logic you are proposing seems to imply that the distinction between adult and child is fixed at 18 in black and white rather than being integrated from 16. Are you therefore advocating that under 18’s shouldn’t work, shouldn’t have sex, shouldn’t pay tax, shouldn’t join the army?

 

[beorhthelm]

By whom? You can have legally have sex and get married in the UK (albeit taking a journey to NI or Scotchland to get your ring). The taxman does not ignore those who earn above the threshold aged under 18 either.


Of course not. Classic straw man argument.



The logic I’m using is based specifically on ideological belief. Everyone over 16 should be able to vote. Nothing more, nothing less.

The logic you are proposing seems to imply that the distinction between adult and child is fixed at 18 in black and white rather than being integrated from 16. Are you therefore advocating that under 18’s shouldn’t work, shouldn’t have sex, shouldn’t pay tax, shouldn’t join the army?

really just point out when you say "young adults should vote" that 16 is not considered adult today. the link to tax is odd and out of the blue, one other country i think off that links voting and taxation is not the best example right now. it's tenuous anyway since they cant work fulltime until 18 (legally have to stay in education or training). majority of 15 and 16 yo probably pay same amount of taxes, on low hours until leaving college. better reason for 16 yo to vote because you believe they are responsible, have a stake in the future, not because they might pay income tax. let them also marry without parent consent, go to main prison, have tattoosm, legally sign contract and so on: make 16 the age of majority and adulthood since they are deemed responsible enough.

 

[Hugo Rune]

really just point out when you say "young adults should vote" that 16 is not considered adult today. the link to tax is odd and out of the blue, one other country i think off that links voting and taxation is not the best example right now. it's tenuous anyway since they cant work fulltime until 18 (legally have to stay in education or training). majority of 15 and 16 yo probably pay same amount of taxes, on low hours until leaving college. better reason for 16 yo to vote because you believe they are responsible, have a stake in the future, not because they might pay income tax. let them also marry without parent consent, go to main prison, have tattoosm, legally sign contract and so on: make 16 the age of majority and adulthood since they are deemed responsible enough.

I agree with some of this. A singular link between voting and tax is illogical, this would mean that you could argue that anyone who can pay VAT should vote. There are multiple reasons why 16 year olds should vote. I haven’t the time or inclination to list them all, but having an investment in the future should be at the top of the list.

But we absolutely shouldn’t have a black and white transition from childhood to adulthood at 16, 17, or 18. It should be phased as it is now.

Oddly, this is not really a party political argument. I’m sure that Farage would do very well from 16-17 year olds as his allies, such as Musk, have so much control over their online consumption. The Scottish referendum was an example of this. 16-20 year olds had the vote but weren’t the demographic that voted for independence the most despite the plans of the SNP.

 

[dsr-burnley]

really just point out when you say "young adults should vote" that 16 is not considered adult today. the link to tax is odd and out of the blue, one other country i think off that links voting and taxation is not the best example right now. it's tenuous anyway since they cant work fulltime until 18 (legally have to stay in education or training). majority of 15 and 16 yo probably pay same amount of taxes, on low hours until leaving college. better reason for 16 yo to vote because you believe they are responsible, have a stake in the future, not because they might pay income tax. let them also marry without parent consent, go to main prison, have tattoosm, legally sign contract and so on: make 16 the age of majority and adulthood since they are deemed responsible enough.

Agreed.

And of course payment of tax isn't linked to age. Few under 16's pay tax, but if they have large amounts of investment income or they do have a source of earned income (eg. actors) they pay tax like anyone else.

 

[Curious Orange]

I agree with some of this. A singular link between voting and tax is illogical, this would mean that you could argue that anyone who can pay VAT should vote. There are multiple reasons why 16 year olds should vote. I haven’t the time or inclination to list them all, but having an investment in the future should be at the top of the list.

But we absolutely shouldn’t have a black and white transition from childhood to adulthood at 16, 17, or 18. It should be phased as it is now.

Oddly, this is not really a party political argument. I’m sure that Farage would do very well from 16-17 year olds as his allies, such as Musk, have so much control over their online consumption. The Scottish referendum was an example of this. 16-20 year olds had the vote but weren’t the demographic that voted for independence the most despite the plans of the SNP.

I think you agree that changing the voting age is an idealogical proposal rather than a pragmatic one?

I'm not against making changes based on ideology, however I'm always wary of making changes solely based on it. Lots and lots of questions to be asked, and careful consideration to be made, before this one goes through (if at all).

 

[Barryseagulls]

My view is that Labour are keen to reduce the voting age down to 16 because at that age they are far more likely to vote Labour then Conservative.

 

[Is it PotG?]

My view is that Labour are keen to reduce the voting age down to 16 because at that age they are far more likely to vote Labour then Conservative.

You know what, you may be on to something there.

 

[fly high]

You know what, you may be on to something there.

That is exactly the reason, same as SNP.

 

[SouthSaxon]

A long, but thoroughly excellent, analysis of Starmer’s choices in relation to the tariffs and the UK-EU reset.

He’s currently walking the tightrope, but that might not be tenable for long, especially as there’s a risk he alienates everyone.

How Trump has reset the Brexit reset

<a rel="me" href="https://mastodon.online/@ChrisGrey">Mastodon</a>

chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com

 

[Me Atome]

My view is that Labour are keen to reduce the voting age down to 16 because at that age they are far more likely to vote Labour then Conservative.

Yes, you've got it in one. All that nonsense about "tax payers" is just an excuse.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

My view is that Labour are keen to reduce the voting age down to 16 because at that age they are far more likely to vote Labour then Conservative.

Is there any research to support this? I genuinely have no idea who they’d vote for….or if they’d vote at all?

 

[Is it PotG?]

Is there any research to support this? I genuinely have no idea who they’d vote for….or if they’d vote at all?

Belief that the world is your lobster (DelBoy) and you can change the world is pretty common at that age.
I remember joining all sorts of political ideals as your parents are old fuddy duddies.
Rik knew.
'Because I'm a Rider at the Gates of Dawn and I take no prisoners.'

 

[Chicken Run]

Is there any research to support this? I genuinely have no idea who they’d vote for….or if they’d vote at all?

Your quite right, i’d be amazed if anymore than 10% of the new wave of voters turned out and those that do will be because they live in a politically vociferous household with parents motivating them.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Belief that the world is your lobster (DelBoy) and you can change the world is pretty common at that age.
I remember joining all sorts of political ideals as your parents are old fuddy duddies.
Rik knew.
'Because I'm a Rider at the Gates of Dawn and I take no prisoners.'

Maybe things have changed over the last 40 plus years?

 

[Is it PotG?]

Maybe things have changed over the last 40 plus years?

Have they?
I hear the same things from 15-20 year olds today that I've heard over and over, year on year.
Plus ça change.

 

[SouthSaxon]

Have they?
I hear the same things from 15-20 year olds today that I've heard over and over, year on year.
Plus ça change.

I’ve never heard 15-20 year olds saying “plus ça change”. Must be an East Sussex thing.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Have they?
I hear the same things from 15-20 year olds today that I've heard over and over, year on year.
Plus ça change.

I genuinely have no idea. Can’t be arsed to look it up either

 

[stewart12]

The Tories could, of course, try and appeal to young voters