[Albion] Lewis Dunk.

[One Teddy Maybank]

I think, excluding Pervis, they were all a bit lacking, but leaving Mateta unchallenged to do his thing didn’t look great.

Spot on.
Called it in the ground, the others were higher than Dunk, who got a bit caught around stepping up and dropping off. As it happened he did neither, which allowed way too much space.

 

[Han Solo]

Yup

View attachment 199592

As we see a few seconds earlier...

...Dunk and Van Hecke are in line.

The Palace player gets a little bit of space on the left wing while Mateta makes a sprint in the middle. If the pass comes in this moment, Mateta is not offside, so Dunk needs to trace the run in case the pass comes.

From this moment until the ball finds Mateta six seconds later, Van Hecke does not take his eyes off the ball. He doesn't know what happens behind him (maybe partially because bad communication from Dunk/Bart?) and doesn't drop in a situation where he definitely should drop. Instead Van Hecke takes a step up to support Jack's pressure on the right side.

When Mateta runs into the space that Van Hecke leaves behind him, Dunk can't outsprint him on a 10m run. It results in a decent run-of-the-mill chance made to look "easy" or "cheap" through Matetas excellent run and finish.

The defenders are not on the same page and we can throw around the ball of blame. For me the main reason (apart from it being a very good attack from Palace) for the goal is Van Hecke not being aware of what Mateta & Dunk are up to. He gets a little bit ball watching, a short lapse in concentration. Shit happens, maybe especially after playing endless amounts of football this season like Van Hecke has.

 

[Weststander]

I don’t agree with this. I also need to see a reply of the first Palace goal as Dunk seemed to play him onside by some margin. Had he been quicker in thought and body then we wouldn’t have conceded that goal.

The Guardian:

"But Hurzeler looked on in disbelief as they made an awful start that immediately handed the initiative to their opponents. His captain, Lewis Dunk, was guilty of playing a sloppy back pass to Bart Verbruggen that he had no option but to kick out of play, with Mateta firing just wide from the resulting throw-in".

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

As we see a few seconds earlier...

View attachment 199594
...Dunk and Van Hecke are in line.

The Palace player gets a little bit of space on the left wing while Mateta makes a sprint in the middle. If the pass comes in this moment, Mateta is not offside, so Dunk needs to trace the run in case the pass comes.

From this moment until the ball finds Mateta six seconds later, Van Hecke does not take his eyes off the ball. He doesn't know what happens behind him (maybe partially because bad communication from Dunk/Bart?) and doesn't drop in a situation where he definitely should drop. Instead Van Hecke takes a step up to support Jack's pressure on the right side.

When Mateta runs into the space that Van Hecke leaves behind him, Dunk can't outsprint him on a 10m run. It results in a decent run-of-the-mill chance made to look "easy" or "cheap" through Matetas excellent run and finish.

The defenders are not on the same page and we can throw around the ball of blame. For me the main reason (apart from it being a very good attack from Palace) for the goal is Van Hecke not being aware of what Mateta & Dunk are up to. He gets a little bit ball watching, a short lapse in concentration. Shit happens, maybe especially after playing endless amounts of football this season like Van Hecke has.

Dunk and Van Hecke in line, Dunk can see everything in front of him, he can see the space Van Hecke leaves behind him and can see Mateta running into it, so should also take a step up and stay alongside Van Hecke so he is offside. The centre-backs being inline from this sort of attack is quite basic stuff I’d have thought. As Hurzler says, we need to do the little things correctly.

 

[DarrenFreemansPerm]

As we see a few seconds earlier...

View attachment 199594
...Dunk and Van Hecke are in line.

The Palace player gets a little bit of space on the left wing while Mateta makes a sprint in the middle. If the pass comes in this moment, Mateta is not offside, so Dunk needs to trace the run in case the pass comes.

From this moment until the ball finds Mateta six seconds later, Van Hecke does not take his eyes off the ball. He doesn't know what happens behind him (maybe partially because bad communication from Dunk/Bart?) and doesn't drop in a situation where he definitely should drop. Instead Van Hecke takes a step up to support Jack's pressure on the right side.

When Mateta runs into the space that Van Hecke leaves behind him, Dunk can't outsprint him on a 10m run. It results in a decent run-of-the-mill chance made to look "easy" or "cheap" through Matetas excellent run and finish.

The defenders are not on the same page and we can throw around the ball of blame. For me the main reason (apart from it being a very good attack from Palace) for the goal is Van Hecke not being aware of what Mateta & Dunk are up to. He gets a little bit ball watching, a short lapse in concentration. Shit happens, maybe especially after playing endless amounts of football this season like Van Hecke has.

When you have 2 centre backs split by 1 attacker the responsibility is on the defender who can see the whole picture to communicate, if Mateta moves onto JP’s shoulder Dunk should be communicating, if JP was to turn around to look for Mateta he would leave his blindside vulnerable for Mateta to run into.

 

[Han Solo]

Dunk and Van Hecke in line, Dunk can see everything in front of him, he can see the space Van Hecke leaves behind him and can see Mateta running into it, so should also take a step up and stay alongside Van Hecke so he is offside. The centre-backs being inline from this sort of attack is quite basic stuff I’d have thought. As Hurzler says, we need to do the little things correctly.

When Mitchell goes past O'Riley on the left wing, Mateta simultaneously makes a (non-offside as he starts in front of Dunk and van Hecke) run and the Palace player can hit it long behind our defense line to a free Mateta unless we follow him. Dunk tracks his run, like he needs to, and the rest of the defenders need to drop. But they're out of position and Mateta runs into the space where Van Hecke needs to be in that situation. But you have your scapegoats and heroes...

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

When Mitchell goes past O'Riley on the left wing, Mateta simultaneously makes a (non-offside as he starts in front of Dunk and van Hecke) run and the Palace player can hit it long behind our defense line to a free Mateta unless we follow him. Dunk tracks his run, like he needs to, and the rest of the defenders need to drop. But they're out of position and Mateta runs into the space where Van Hecke needs to be in that situation. But you have your scapegoats and heroes...

We will have to agree to disagree as I didn’t see it like this at all. I think the situation is far more simple than this analysis.

It’s nothing to do with scapegoats and heroes either.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Putting aside his individual performance, our record with and without Dunky this season is starkly different. He’s become something of an omen.

In games we’ve played with Dunky:

7 wins, 8 draws, 8 losses

In games played without Dunky:

10 wins, 3 draws, 2 losses

Coincidence or catalyst?

Don't really think it's his defensive abilities that have contributed to those stats it's his movement of the ball. He appears to demand the ball is moved at snail pace. When he doesn't play we move it so much quicker and through the lines. Saturday was plain f***ing awful from him in the last 10 minutes, utter clueless.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

When Mitchell goes past O'Riley on the left wing, Mateta simultaneously makes a (non-offside as he starts in front of Dunk and van Hecke) run and the Palace player can hit it long behind our defense line to a free Mateta unless we follow him. Dunk tracks his run, like he needs to, and the rest of the defenders need to drop. But they're out of position and Mateta runs into the space where Van Hecke needs to be in that situation. But you have your scapegoats and heroes...

It’s about discussion, and IMO you’re wrong on this for the reasons stated by others above particularly @DarrenFreemansPerm

The comment highlighted is unnecessary and incorrect….

 

[herecomesaregular]

There can't be sentiment in football. Dunk has been a legend for us but his time has gone now, he's playing because of injuries to Webster and Igor only. Unfortunately this might cost us another go in Europe. Let's hope he can pick up his form for the run in..

 

[trueblue]

Blimey. I never realised Lewis Dunk was crap until I read this thread. Can’t believe the bloke was playing for England last summer. Clearly clueless. Could never handle physical defenders, can’t organise a back line… how were we all fooled for so long?

 

[Han Solo]

Blimey. I never realised Lewis Dunk was crap until I read this thread. Can’t believe the bloke was playing for England last summer. Clearly clueless. Could never handle physical defenders, can’t organise a back line… how were we all fooled for so long?

Like Adam Webster, Solly March, Dale Stephens etc. he can never be as good as someone with a foreign name.

We score 1 goal in 3 games and now we're debating if it was the goalie or central defender who ruined our week (unless it was the manager who failed to make the world perfect).

There's some weird psychology around where exotic players (Enciso, Igor etc) are misunderstood geniuses who can't do anything wrong and while local lads will have every step forensically analysed in order to find confirmation for their deeply rooted idea that something homemade and familiar can never be as exciting or good as something new and expensive.

 

[Deadly Danson]

Like Adam Webster, Solly March, Dale Stephens etc. he can never be as good as someone with a foreign name.

We score 1 goal in 3 games and now we're debating if it was the goalie or central defender who ruined our week (unless it was the manager who failed to make the world perfect).

There's some weird psychology around where exotic players (Enciso, Igor etc) are misunderstood geniuses who can't do anything wrong and while local lads will have every step forensically analysed in order to find confirmation for their deeply rooted idea that something homemade and familiar can never be as exciting or good as something new and expensive.

Thats not what's happening here. A few people are simply debating (as they have all season) whether age and injuries have caught up with Lewis - there's no consensus but it's a valid debate. Equally there's certainly no consensus on here as to the merits or otherwise of Igor or Enciso, in fact I'd say more people are doubtful over the pair of them. I'd be utterly amazed if the same debate about Dunky isn't happening in our planning for next season - doesn't mean he's suddenly terrible.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Blimey. I never realised Lewis Dunk was crap until I read this thread. Can’t believe the bloke was playing for England last summer. Clearly clueless. Could never handle physical defenders, can’t organise a back line… how were we all fooled for so long?

Picked for England squad.
Not playing.

 

[Withdean11]

He's approaching his mid 30's and has not looked after his body as well as other players who have played at a high level long into their 30's ( Ronaldo, Milner ,Bruno etc.)

Combined with our sharp rise in our level over the last few years, it shouldn't be a surprise that Dunk has declined below our requirement. The signs were there last season, and its been even worse this season.

Strong conversations between FH and LD will be needed at the end of the season. I imagine Dunk is professional enough to understand.

 

[Milano]

I think there are two questions here:

1) Is Dunk 'finished' at this level? Only he knows that. I don't think he's 100% fit and he's only playing because he has to, which might explain question 2............
2) Was Dunk to blame for CP first goal Saturday? IMO without doubt he was. He has the entire picture in front of him, yet still doesn't 'step out'. He won't need telling either, he'll know.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

He's approaching his mid 30's and has not looked after his body as well as other players who have played at a high level long into their 30's ( Ronaldo, Milner ,Bruno etc.)

Combined with our sharp rise in our level over the last few years, it shouldn't be a surprise that Dunk has declined below our requirement. The signs were there last season, and its been even worse this season.

Strong conversations between FH and LD will be needed at the end of the season. I imagine Dunk is professional enough to understand.

It's quite simply that the high line exposes all of his weaknesses and doesn't play to his strengths.
He has had a very stop/start season on top of a very demanding season last season, where he was clearly pushing himself to keep going, when he desperately needed a rest.

I thought he looked decent when he came on against Forest and was not really at fault against Villa.

Chances are that he won't be first choice next season.
But he will still be a decent backup.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

I think there are two questions here:

1) Is Dunk 'finished' at this level? Only he knows that. I don't think he's 100% fit and he's only playing because he has to, which might explain question 2............
2) Was Dunk to blame for CP first goal Saturday? IMO without doubt he was. He has the entire picture in front of him, yet still doesn't 'step out'. He won't need telling either, he'll know.

Yeah he was to blame, but to be honest Mateta vs Dunk was always my fear for this game.
Mateta is exactly the type of forward Dunk has struggled with throughout his career,
Even Prime Dunk would have struggled with the form Mateta has shown lately.

 

[brighton_tom]

Yeah he was to blame, but to be honest Mateta vs Dunk was always my fear for this game.
Mateta is exactly the type of forward Dunk has struggled with throughout his career,
Even Prime Dunk would have struggled with the form Mateta has shown lately.

Most centre backs would.

 

[dazzer6666]

He's approaching his mid 30's and has not looked after his body as well as other players who have played at a high level long into their 30's ( Ronaldo, Milner ,Bruno etc.)

Combined with our sharp rise in our level over the last few years, it shouldn't be a surprise that Dunk has declined below our requirement. The signs were there last season, and its been even worse this season.

Strong conversations between FH and LD will be needed at the end of the season. I imagine Dunk is professional enough to understand.

Based on what?