[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Mellotron]

Was this expected? (Musk that is, not the secretary)

I remember it being mentioned from the outset, yes. Did wonder if he'd want to stay on if he was getting the sense of a higher level of power being in Gov though. (Unelected foreigner of course, lest we forget...).

I'm sure his money will continue to buy a significant level of influence/leverage.

 

[peterward]

I remember it being mentioned from the outset, yes. Did wonder if he'd want to stay on if he was getting the sense of a higher level of power being in Gov though. (Unelected foreigner of course, lest we forget...).

I'm sure his money will continue to buy a significant level of influence/leverage.

Its actually quite masterful from Trump.

Get Musk to make and be the public face of the devastating cuts, and then after his reputation is smashed, then kick him out.

 

[Blues Guitarist]

Is that Trumps equivalent of ‘to spend more time with his family’?

Which one?

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Which one?

I find it difficult to believe that someone would actually be willing to shag him.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Its actually quite masterful from Trump.

Get Musk to make and be the public face of the devastating cuts, and then after his reputation is smashed, then kick him out.

I think it more likely that trump has realised just how toxic Musk is and how unpopular DOGE is and so is getting shot of him.

 

[SouthSaxon]

Its actually quite masterful from Trump.

This makes me think it wasn’t his idea. But, you’re right, he can make a show of blaming Musk and deflecting a lot of the criticism.

In return, Musk gets…well, an enormous sense of wellbeing presumably, and shit all else.

 

[fly high]

This makes me think it wasn’t his idea. But, you’re right, he can make a show of blaming Musk and deflecting a lot of the criticism.

In return, Musk gets…well, an enormous sense of wellbeing presumably, and shit all else.

Musk walks away with a lot of stuff. Reported he has all the personal details of every Federal employee, probably every military veteran, pensioners & anyone on social payments. To someone like him data is money & he has reportedly grab lots of it. It's rumoured that part of this tech deal with the UK includes all our medical details for US pharmaceutical companies plus of course Starmer considering suspending copy right protection for AI to grab it for free.

 

[SouthSaxon]

Musk walks away with a lot of stuff. Reported he has all the personal details of every Federal employee, probably every military veteran, pensioners & anyone on social payments. To someone like him data is money & he has reportedly grab lots of it. It's rumoured that part of this tech deal with the UK includes all our medical details for US pharmaceutical companies plus of course Starmer considering suspending copy right protection for AI to grab it for free.

The AI thing is broader than Musk (and highly damaging, I’m with the creative industry on that one), but yes, I was being ironic.

Whatever he walks away with, it’s also costing him his global reputation (such as it was) and significant damage to the value of his companies.

 

[fly high]

The AI thing is broader than Musk (and highly damaging, I’m with the creative industry on that one), but yes, I was being ironic.

Whatever he walks away with, it’s also costing him his global reputation (such as it was) and significant damage to the value of his companies.

He will reckon, yes he's lost value but in a couple of years it will all be forgotten.

 

[raymondo]

I remember it being mentioned from the outset, yes. Did wonder if he'd want to stay on if he was getting the sense of a higher level of power being in Gov though. (Unelected foreigner of course, lest we forget...).

I'm sure his money will continue to buy a significant level of influence/leverage.

Exactly this , plus his evangelical followers

 

[raymondo]

I think it more likely that trump has realised just how toxic Musk is and how unpopular DOGE is and so is getting shot of him.

Given how effective Trump says he's been, logic would suggest that Trump would extend his contract up to a year. So yes, probably as you say.
Americans need to remember that everything Musk and DOGE did was in Trump's name and 'desires' as fancy Vance would say.

 

[Triggaaar]

This makes me think it wasn’t his idea. But, you’re right, he can make a show of blaming Musk and deflecting a lot of the criticism.

If he blames Musk, Musk won't take it lying down and will fight back. They'd both lose.

I think it's more likely they'll say there's nothing to blame Musk for, he did a great job and the only issues with the country were are due to Biden and immigrants.

 

[SouthSaxon]

If he blames Musk, Musk won't take it lying down and will fight back. They'd both lose.

I think it's more likely they'll say there's nothing to blame Musk for, he did a great job and the only issues with the country were are due to Biden and immigrants.

I wouldn’t rule out Trump trying to do both things. That they are inherently contradictory wouldn’t matter to him.

My point is, it’s an option he could use if he wakes up in that side of the bed one morning.

 

[SouthSaxon]

Surprising they’ve been this up-front about it?

Russia says it cannot accept US peace plan for Ukraine ‘in its current form’

Moscow’s refusal highlights the limited progress Donald Trump has made on his promise to end the war

www.theguardian.com

 

[Eric the meek]

Surprising they’ve been this up-front about it?

Russia says it cannot accept US peace plan for Ukraine ‘in its current form’

Moscow’s refusal highlights the limited progress Donald Trump has made on his promise to end the war

www.theguardian.com

I think what they're trying to say, is that they can't accept the peace plan, because it is a plan for peace, when what they really want is a plan for more war.

I'm not at all sure if the US will ever come to realise this fundamental point.

 

[crookie]

I think what they're trying to say, is that they can't accept the peace plan, because it is a plan for peace, when what they really want is a plan for more war.

I'm not at all sure if the US will ever come to realise this fundamental point.

Well, any plan that leaves Ukraine as a functioning independent state is clearly unacceptable, a red line for them. Not sure even Trump will acquiesce to that, so yeah, this 'peace process' is going up a dead end.

 

[Sirnormangall]

I read yesterday that there is surprisingly little backlash from the women/babushkas, unlike their war with Afghanistan. Seems that the 'theme' is that 'they are mainly prisoners or guys just doing it for the money '.

I expect that most or all will be taken from the ethnic groups in the far provinces. They are being slowly decimated while Moscow and St P stay protected and party - a win-win for Putin.

True - but the day is getting closer when he’ll have to recruit from the big cities. Sentiment and support for the war may start to change at that point.

 

[Blinkers]

I’ve finally finished reading Midnight in Moscow by John L Sullivan who was the US Ambassador to Russia at the outset of the war. He says there are four important features that are the most relevant to understanding and crafting a strategy to address Putin’s war:

1. Russia is not merely an adversary of the US - it’s a self-declared enemy and Putin believes he is at war with the US and NATO. No goodwill gesture or search for a negotiated solution by the west will change that.
2. The Russian government cannot be trusted in any context. Putin and the Kremlin are untethered from the truth and facts. Their attitude is that the truth is any story which succeeds. Trust is impossible and after so many lies and falsehoods how could anyone negotiate in good faith with Putin’s government again.
3. No matter what Putin might say he will never surrender the goal of the special military operation to subjugate Ukraine. Never. When Putin or one of his surrogates talks of negotiations and peace it should be treated as pure disinformation.
4. Putin’s removal is not necessarily the answer - though I’m not sure Sullivan clearly articulates what the answer is. He says that change has to come from within, which could take time, and in the meantime the west has to continue a policy of containment. He strongly advocates continued military support as being in the best long term interests of the US and west.

Hopefully Trump will heed these points. It’s an interesting book in which he also makes a number of comparisons with WWII, including how Germany described the invasion of Poland as a “military intervention” to protect ethnic Germans in Poland. Sounds familiar, sadly

Currently about a third of the way through reading this book. Well worth the read. The above points read true.

 

[raymondo]

I find it difficult to believe that someone would actually be willing to shag him.

Money, power...

 

[raymondo]

Currently about a third of the way through reading this book. Well worth the read. The above points read true.

A timely reminder - I just reread the original post