[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[SouthSaxon]

I think he's more dangerous than that. He's a toxic combination of arrogant, ignorant, and incompetent.

Someone else questioned whether he really was the great negotiator he makes himself out to be.

I agree. I mean, he made a bunch of concessions to Putin before they’d even started.

His team are no different. There’s a very good takedown of Steve Witless below, from earlier this week - in short, they lack even basic understanding of what it is they’re negotiating.

 

[Triggaaar]

Some interesting points, like 'Europe has decided to draw the line in Ukraine, and won't allow Russian occupation, and the US don't yet realise that.'

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Some interesting points, like 'Europe has decided to draw the line in Ukraine, and won't allow Russian occupation, and the US don't yet realise that.'

Robert Fox certainly needs to implement the Dewey Decimal Classification to his bookcase

 

[raymondo]

From earlier post "Funds generated under the latest proposal would be converted directly into foreign currency and routed abroad, and Ukraine would be liable for compensation in the event of delays or disputes."
If Russian attacks halt mining Ukraine has to compensate USA.

Also "The US would receive royalties from the fund before Ukraine, at a 4 per cent premium, and would retain priority rights on infrastructure projects as well as veto power over third-party sales of resources."
So on-top of stealing half of all Ukrainian resources to cover it's supposed costs it will also get a 4% extra interest charge.

"Under the new proposal, projects covered by the fund would include those carried out by the Ukrainian government itself, as well as by companies approved by Kyiv or state-owned organisations.
The deal also covers infrastructure connected to the exploitation of natural resources, such as roads, railways, pipelines, ports and processing plants."
Presumably if any country provides Ukraine with funds for reconstruction USA takes a cut?

Looks like it - shocking "offer from an ally" isn't it .
52nd state, plus interest and without security guarantees

 

[raymondo]

It's just all nonsense and a waste of our time looking at it.

Sorry ...

 

[raymondo]

Heading out of a tenth storey window any day soon.

They'd never lift him off the floor

 

[raymondo]

I agree. I mean, he made a bunch of concessions to Putin before they’d even started.

His team are no different. There’s a very good takedown of Steve Witless below, from earlier this week - in short, they lack even basic understanding of what it is they’re negotiating.

Yes ..'those 4 errr province places errr Crimea, yes Crimea!!, errr Donbas...errr and the other two... you know their names..."

 

[Eric the meek]

This is not new, but it's worth reminding ourselves.

 

[Sirnormangall]

Looks like it - shocking "offer from an ally" isn't it .
52nd state, plus interest and without security guarantees

Not sure why Ukraine would sign up to that without a security guarantee. Would surely be better off throwing in their lot with Europe.

 

[Triggaaar]

Welcome back defenders.

So Russia are claiming that Ukraine broke the ceasefire, by destroying a gas metering station in Kursk.

Where to start:
1) It was previously destroyed by Russia when they were trying to retake Kursk
2) Russia said they wouldn't agree to a ceasefire in the first place

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

This is not new, but it's worth reminding ourselves.

What with …..?

 

[raymondo]

Not sure why Ukraine would sign up to that without a security guarantee. Would surely be better off throwing in their lot with Europe.

I'm pretty sure you're right. The US would betray them anyway.

 

[cunning fergus]

Can you provide any evidence of this? Can you reply to post #25,087




Are you seriously trying to suggest that Steve Witless is one of the adults? You're the one being childish here. Russia will expand until they are stopped, so it stands to reason that Europe will have to stop Russia at some point.

There’s a lot in that post.

It’s fine I understand you are comfortable with the U.K. relying on other countries industry to support its defence strategy. That position for me is sub optimal, as neatly demonstrated by the recent election of Trump.

If this country’s defence strategy is tied to other countries industrial output we are significantly less independent in our own ability to produce armaments and exports themto allies. That may be the only viable option for the British Government today, however it equally means we are a diminished global power.

Reliance on other countries industries and resources to support our defence will also mean that we will have to pay more.

And there’s the ultimate point, I am comfortable that this country steps back from global politics, our finances are shot, we have a limited industrial base to be at the top table and beyond the nuclear warheads we have a feeble conventional military.

Ukraine has demonstrated beyond measure that the Russian military machine has limitations, however the war continues and Russia still occupies 20% of Ukraine.

The one point we can agree on, is the likelihood of European conquest by Russia. For different reasons, not going to happen, this country’s politicians should recognise that and have a debate with the country on what type of defense strategy we can afford going forward.

 

[Triggaaar]

It’s fine I understand you are comfortable with the U.K. relying on other countries industry to support its defence strategy. That position for me is sub optimal, as neatly demonstrated by the recent election of Trump.

And I understand if you think it's sub-optimal, I think that's a perfectly fair position. Just not in regards to us supporting Ukraine. I assume we we're transitioning to electric arc steelmaking, which I think is a better way to make steel, but for now we can import what we need.

If this country’s defence strategy is tied to other countries industrial output we are significantly less independent in our own ability to produce armaments and exports them to allies. That may be the only viable option for the British Government today, however it equally means we are a diminished global power.

I agree that we are less independent, but we don't need to be independent in order to export to Ukraine. Even in WW2 our defence strategy relied on supplies from the US.

Reliance on other countries industries and resources to support our defence will also mean that we will have to pay more.

No it doesn't. If we could produce traditional steel as cheaply as we can buy it, then we'd still be producing it.

And there’s the ultimate point, I am comfortable that this country steps back from global politics, our finances are shot, we have a limited industrial base to be at the top table and beyond the nuclear warheads we have a feeble conventional military.

As I've said, you're mistaken on finances (on the idea that importing costs us more). We do have a limited industrial base which I think is poor from successive governments, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do what we can to support Ukraine, and indeed supporting Ukraine would lead to us producing more, which I'm sure you'll think is good.

Ukraine has demonstrated beyond measure that the Russian military machine has limitations, however the war continues and Russia still occupies 20% of Ukraine.

It does.

The one point we can agree on, is the likelihood of European conquest by Russia. For different reasons, not going to happen, this country’s politicians should recognise that and have a debate with the country on what type of defense strategy we can afford going forward.

I agree that European conquest by Russia isn't going to happen. The only reason it won't happen is because Russia aren't capable of doing it, otherwise you can be sure that Europe would be a Russian empire. Our politicians have noted is that we need to spend more of our budget on defence. If European money (EU and ours) is spent on military equipment from the UK, that's no bad thing for us.

 

[raymondo]

Welcome back defenders.

So Russia are claiming that Ukraine broke the ceasefire, by destroying a gas metering station in Kursk.

Where to start:
1) It was previously destroyed by Russia when they were trying to retake Kursk
2) Russia said they wouldn't agree to a ceasefire in the first place

Yep, a blatant false flag

 

[raymondo]

What with …..?

I guess the implication is the late 2020s...still, I don't think the current war will end, it may well roll forward into a NATO country if Russia isn't fully defeated in Ukraine.

 

[raymondo]

Russia demonstrates again that it doesn't want peace... Dnipro last night

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

There’s a lot in that post.

It’s fine I understand you are comfortable with the U.K. relying on other countries industry to support its defence strategy. That position for me is sub optimal, as neatly demonstrated by the recent election of Trump.

If this country’s defence strategy is tied to other countries industrial output we are significantly less independent in our own ability to produce armaments and exports themto allies. That may be the only viable option for the British Government today, however it equally means we are a diminished global power.

Reliance on other countries industries and resources to support our defence will also mean that we will have to pay more.

And there’s the ultimate point, I am comfortable that this country steps back from global politics, our finances are shot, we have a limited industrial base to be at the top table and beyond the nuclear warheads we have a feeble conventional military.

Ukraine has demonstrated beyond measure that the Russian military machine has limitations, however the war continues and Russia still occupies 20% of Ukraine.

The one point we can agree on, is the likelihood of European conquest by Russia. For different reasons, not going to happen, this country’s politicians should recognise that and have a debate with the country on what type of defense strategy we can afford going forward.

So in summary, we should give up because our supply chain relies on other countries …. Something that has been the case since we binned off the age of sail.

Europe is never going to invade Russia for any other reason than it’s too big. Why did you even bring that up, I mean what’s the point. Kicking Russia out of Ukraine is another matter, not an easy task but with the Russia being on its arse both military and economically it is possible.

Thats a lot of words from you showing that your knowledge of the subject matter is piss poor … or it’s trolling 7/10 for effort, 2/10 for substance.

 

[raymondo]

Different standards..

 

[raymondo]

Ukrainian drone operators were working hard. There are regular videos along the front line.