[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Triggaaar]

So the time to muddle through is done, and now hard headed choices are required. If this country’s defence is a priority then it requires a sensible industrial strategy that includes steel production.

Can you provide any evidence of this? Can you reply to post #25,087

The alternative is more political theatre which is lapped up by some of the children, not the adults.

Are you seriously trying to suggest that Steve Witless is one of the adults? You're the one being childish here. Russia will expand until they are stopped, so it stands to reason that Europe will have to stop Russia at some point.

 

[raymondo]

Interesting.

I'm starting to think that when Kadyrov goes there could well be civil war within Chechnya.... which could spread to other regions.... and the whole house of cards could come crashing down.

And I don't think Kadyrov will live a relaxed life in many places.
I wonder how Assad is getting on with his memoirs

 

[raymondo]

Ukraine army regaining territory near Pokrovsk - took control of another village yesterday

 

[Triggaaar]

Ukraine army regaining territory near Pokrovsk - took control of another village yesterday

But British steel raymondo, British steel!

 

[GoldstoneVintage]

BBC are unbelievable in how they just blithely report any old crap!

"In other news, Putin did a shit on the floor then proceeded to smear his faeces all over the walls of the Kremlin."

 

[fly high]

Apologies for the change of subject (I'm not a Russian, honest), but this may be something.

Kadyrov is reported to be trying to move his assets and maybe his family out of Russia.

As a result (?) he has had a difference of opinion with Putin. Hmm.

Heading out of a tenth storey window any day soon.

 

[raymondo]

But British steel raymondo, British steel!

I know I know .
1. Continue support of Ukraine, who are holding their lines well... against the invaders of Europe
2. In parallel increase defence spending, production, procurement and coordination across Europe.
3. Ensure supplies of weapons, steel, components from reliable allies (eg S Korea) whilst Europe increases it's own production.

Europe (including UK) started late, but it feels like momentum is growing steadily.

 

[SouthSaxon]

BBC are unbelievable in how they just blithely report any old crap!

"In other news, Putin did a shit on the floor then proceeded to smear his feces all over the walls of the Kremlin."
View attachment 199161

That would definitely count as reporting any old crap

 

[Eric the meek]

Interesting.

I'm starting to think that when Kadyrov goes there could well be civil war within Chechnya.... which could spread to other regions.... and the whole house of cards could come crashing down.

You reminded me of Kadyrov's decaration of a 'blood feud' late last year. I thought about doing some research on it, but then thought better of it. Ees complicated.

Essentially there have been some disagreements over business between the Chechens, Ingoshetians and Dagestanis, who are all neighbours in the Caucasus. For whatever reason, Kadyrov wants out.

 

[Triggaaar]

BBC are unbelievable in how they just blithely report any old crap!

"In other news, Putin did a shit on the floor then proceeded to smear his feces all over the walls of the Kremlin."
View attachment 199161

Agreed, the BBC shouldn't be parroting Russian propaganda.

 

[SouthSaxon]

But British steel raymondo, British steel!

They don’t like it up ‘em you know.

 

[Sirnormangall]

Agreed, the BBC shouldn't be parroting Russian propaganda.

Indeed - lazy and dangerous journalism

 

[Mellotron]

Just seen it on Euromaidan Press.

Trump: Here's a deal (it's shit but I want you to sign it)
Zelensky: No, thanks.
*one month later*
Trump: Here's another deal (it's even shitter than the deal you didn't particularly want to sign, for some bizarre reason)
Zelensky: ...

He's an actual f***ing moron isn't he?

 

[rogersix]

You have a lower bar on your expectations of government standards to me. I’m not sure there is another issue any more serious to the nation state than war, but each to their own.

As it stands we have “muddled through” all the while we were happy to outsource our defence to the US.

So the time to muddle through is done, and now hard headed choices are required. If this country’s defence is a priority then it requires a sensible industrial strategy that includes steel production.

The alternative is more political theatre which is lapped up by some of the children, not the adults.

https://search.app/fEZGfb8ktGPmRZC9A

The best defensive strategy for dear old blighty is to back the Ukrainians to the hilt

 

[raymondo]

O'Brien's take on the minerals' deal. Sorry if fixtures or total repetition.

​ ​ Forwarded this email? Subscribe here for more Deal With Trump Like Canada and Greenland​ ​ Not Like A Wall Street Bank​ Phillips P. OBrien Mar 28 ∙ Preview ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ READ IN APP ​ The details of the latest proposed US-Ukraine Minerals “deal” started leaking yesterday in the early morning. It was actually more onerous for Ukraine than the first versions of the deal discussed weeks ago. It was also an indication that the Trump administration is being even more open in its alignment with Vladimir Putin. ​ The US is trying to control this—and hopefully Ukraine will react like Canada or Greenland—not like many Americans. The US, not surprisingly, is trying to sell the deal as some great partnership for Ukraine. National Security Council spokesperson James Hewitt said “The mineral deal offers Ukraine the opportunity to form an enduring economic relationship with the United States that is the basis for long term security and peace," The US also is trying to pretend (like they did last time) that the deal that they want is close to being agreed by Ukraine and that all will be signed and sealed soon. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent, was very positive about the deal when speaking on wednesday. "We have passed along a completed document for the economic partnership (that) is currently being reviewed by Ukrainians, and we hope to go to full discussions and perhaps even get signatures next week," As always though, this is the US government now operating in a world of brutal fantasy—where its wishes and brutalities are simply accepted by other states as a fait accompli. The “deal” itself that the US is proposing for Ukraine basically turns ownership and control of Ukraine’s minerals to the USA—so that the USA receives direct repayments worth double the aid it has given—aid that was never a loan in the first place. It is outright extortion for what was a US gift—and a gift that was strongly in US interests btw.

 

[Eric the meek]

Trump: Here's a deal (it's shit but I want you to sign it)
Zelensky: No, thanks.
*one month later*
Trump: Here's another deal (it's even shitter than the deal you didn't particularly want to sign, for some bizarre reason)
Zelensky: ...

He's an actual f***ing moron isn't he?

I think he's more dangerous than that. He's a toxic combination of arrogant, ignorant, and incompetent.

Someone else questioned whether he really was the great negotiator he makes himself out to be.

 

[fly high]

O'Brien's take on the minerals' deal. Sorry if fixtures or total repetition.

​

O'Brien's take on the minerals' deal. Sorry if fixtures or total repetition.

​ ​ Forwarded this email? Subscribe here for more Deal With Trump Like Canada and Greenland​ ​ Not Like A Wall Street Bank​ Phillips P. OBrien Mar 28 ∙ Preview ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ READ IN APP ​ The details of the latest proposed US-Ukraine Minerals “deal” started leaking yesterday in the early morning. It was actually more onerous for Ukraine than the first versions of the deal discussed weeks ago. It was also an indication that the Trump administration is being even more open in its alignment with Vladimir Putin. ​ The US is trying to control this—and hopefully Ukraine will react like Canada or Greenland—not like many Americans. The US, not surprisingly, is trying to sell the deal as some great partnership for Ukraine. National Security Council spokesperson James Hewitt said “The mineral deal offers Ukraine the opportunity to form an enduring economic relationship with the United States that is the basis for long term security and peace," The US also is trying to pretend (like they did last time) that the deal that they want is close to being agreed by Ukraine and that all will be signed and sealed soon. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent, was very positive about the deal when speaking on wednesday. "We have passed along a completed document for the economic partnership (that) is currently being reviewed by Ukrainians, and we hope to go to full discussions and perhaps even get signatures next week," The “deal” itself that the US is proposing for Ukraine basically turns ownership and control of Ukraine’s minerals to the USA—so that the USA receives direct repayments worth double the aid it has given—aid that was never a loan in the first place. It is outright extortion for what was a US gift—and a gift that was strongly in US interests btw.

From earlier post "Funds generated under the latest proposal would be converted directly into foreign currency and routed abroad, and Ukraine would be liable for compensation in the event of delays or disputes."
If Russian attacks halt mining Ukraine has to compensate USA.

Also "The US would receive royalties from the fund before Ukraine, at a 4 per cent premium, and would retain priority rights on infrastructure projects as well as veto power over third-party sales of resources."
So on-top of stealing half of all Ukrainian resources to cover it's supposed costs it will also get a 4% extra interest charge.

"Under the new proposal, projects covered by the fund would include those carried out by the Ukrainian government itself, as well as by companies approved by Kyiv or state-owned organisations.
The deal also covers infrastructure connected to the exploitation of natural resources, such as roads, railways, pipelines, ports and processing plants."
Presumably if any country provides Ukraine with funds for reconstruction USA takes a cut?

 

[Eric the meek]

 

[Triggaaar]

From earlier post "Funds generated under the latest proposal would be converted directly into foreign currency and routed abroad, and Ukraine would be liable for compensation in the event of delays or disputes."
If Russian attacks halt mining Ukraine has to compensate USA.

Also "The US would receive royalties from the fund before Ukraine, at a 4 per cent premium, and would retain priority rights on infrastructure projects as well as veto power over third-party sales of resources."
So on-top of stealing half of all Ukrainian resources to cover it's supposed costs it will also get a 4% extra interest charge.

"Under the new proposal, projects covered by the fund would include those carried out by the Ukrainian government itself, as well as by companies approved by Kyiv or state-owned organisations.
The deal also covers infrastructure connected to the exploitation of natural resources, such as roads, railways, pipelines, ports and processing plants."
Presumably if any country provides Ukraine with funds for reconstruction USA takes a cut?

It's just all nonsense and a waste of our time looking at it.

 

[Triggaaar]

That's a welcome surprise