[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Triggaaar]

The only circumstances in which Europe should remove any sanctions is Russia's total withdrawal from Ukraine.

Removing them for any other reason will just help Russia recover and build up its army to wage more war.

 

[raymondo]

Oh Christ

Maybe you should've stayed at work

 

[Flounce]

This is what happens when we have the US and Russia discussing deals while keeping Ukraine out of the room.

Nothing will ever be agreed this way.

How this can even happen is f***ing mind boggling to me

 

[Triggaaar]

How this can even happen is f***ing mind boggling to me

Americans

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

How this can even happen is f***ing mind boggling to me

Maybe that’s the point. bumble**** can go ‘ I tried but they weren’t interested’. You don’t have to mediate if there’s only one party on the room. it’s the perfect ‘out’ for him. He always needs a face saving escape.

 

[Flounce]

Americans

If this happened in England I would hope, no expect, that they’d be rioting on the streets! I’d even join in and I’m not a street protester

WTF is wrong with Americans these days? I remember and lived through the Vietnam protests. Have Americans had lobotomies? This is so un American to me

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Americans

Cock Yanks Yanks (CSY) would be more accurate*

* I’ve worked with Americans and many were genuinely nice people, albeit a bit over friendly and with disappointing drinking habits. However, there were a few who I just know are Trump Bunnies and they were CSY.

 

[Triggaaar]

Maybe that’s the point. bumble**** can go ‘ I tried but they weren’t interested’. You don’t have to mediate if there’s only one party on the room. it’s the perfect ‘out’ for him. He always needs a face saving escape.

It's not a perfect out at all, and he doesn't save face.

He claimed he'd get peace in 24 hours, and we knew he wouldn't. He then claimed it would be 100 days, and then a few months or something, and each time we knew he wouldn't. The reason we knew he wouldn't get peace is because the two sides will not compromise on their goals.

Him then saying 'I didn't get peace because they wouldn't compromise on their goals' is not a way out, that's what everyone said in the first place.

Of course his cult followers won't care, they're indoctrinated idiots. But that's true regardless of what he does and what excuse he makes up.

 

[Triggaaar]

If this happened in England I would hope, no expect, that they’d be rioting on the streets! I’d even join in and I’m not a street protester

WTF is wrong with Americans these days? I remember and lived through the Vietnam protests. Have Americans had lobotomies? This is so un American to me

It seems the goal of the Republican party is to ruin their education system such that the public are too stupid to realise they're being screwed over. So we have a government who are serving the rich and screwing over the poor, but the poor have voted for them because they think they're on the same side

When the US get passed this shit show, they could do with reforming their constitution to prevent it happening again.

 

[Eric the meek]

This level of incompetence can put lives at risk. Tendar says that Hegseth and Waltz are the prime suspects.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

It's not a perfect out at all, and he doesn't save face.

He claimed he'd get peace in 24 hours, and we knew he wouldn't. He then claimed it would be 100 days, and then a few months or something, and each time we knew he wouldn't. The reason we knew he wouldn't get peace is because the two sides will not compromise on their goals.

Him then saying 'I didn't get peace because they wouldn't compromise on their goals' is not a way out, that's what everyone said in the first place.

Of course his cult followers won't care, they're indoctrinated idiots. But that's true regardless of what he does and what excuse he makes up.

That problem with you @Triggaaar is that you are a sensible and rational chap. Trump isn‘t, if in his mind it’s an out, then it’ll be an out.

Lets face it, no one of any sense would have peace negotiations with only on party, yet he did. this is the bloke that has been broke on a number of times yet he doesn’t believe he has.

 

[raymondo]

It seems the goal of the Republican party is to ruin their education system such that the public are too stupid to realise you're screwing them over. So we have a government who are serving the rich and screwing over the poor, but the poor have voted for them because they think they're on the same side

When the US get passed this shit show, they could do with reforming their constitution to prevent it happening again.

Yep. This morning I was reading similar from Krugman or O'Brien - stop the public gaining easy access to education, control the news feeds and online conversation...
Gosh, it's starting to sound like Russia...

 

[Triggaaar]

That problem with you @Triggaaar is that you are a sensible and rational chap.

I've been told of many problems, but that's a new one for the list

Trump isn‘t, if in his mind it’s an out, then it’ll be an out.

Oh yes I accept that he'll see it as an out, and try and spin it that way. But there's not really anything that could happen that he wouldn't try to spin.

We can't be sure what Trump will do. We have to prepare for the worst (and by we I mean Europe/Ukraine).

 

[fly high]

I've been told of many problems, but that's a new one for the list




Oh yes I accept that he'll see it as an out, and try and spin it that way. But there's not really anything that could happen that he wouldn't try to spin.

We can't be sure what Trump will do. We have to prepare for the worst (and by we I mean Europe/Ukraine).

Think not just Europe/Ukraine but the whole of the free world.

 

[Triggaaar]

Think not just Europe/Ukraine but the whole of the free world.

Yes, that's true. I know the likes of Japan, Canada and Australia have helped, but I don't know what Japan and Australia have been saying since Trump took over.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

I've been told of many problems, but that's a new one for the list




Oh yes I accept that he'll see it as an out, and try and spin it that way. But there's not really anything that could happen that he wouldn't try to spin.

We can't be sure what Trump will do. We have to prepare for the worst (and by we I mean Europe/Ukraine).

Totally agree. Europe should consider him a busted flush and crack on which in fairness seems to the case.
From an EU point of view I reckon Turkey will join very shortly, which will drive Putin nuts and confuse the hell out of Trump.

Advisor: Mr President, Turkey has joined the EU.
Trump: Jesus what are we going to do for thanksgiving.
Advisor: It’s not that type of Turkey, Mr President… and can I ask that you stop stapling your tie to the desk.

 

[raymondo]

Yes, that's true. I know the likes of Japan, Canada and Australia have helped, but I don't know what Japan and Australia have been saying since Trump took over.

There's a big online and TV debate in Australia (friends tell me) about the Trump approach - for and against
as you'd expect.
Two key issues:
- I believe Australia's biggest trading partner is China. Over the years there have been issues of course, but they remain big trading partners
- There's plans for this Aukus project (Aus/UK/US) joint project for submarine patrols, new subs, huge expense, originally proposed by the US I believe. Concerns now in Australia: clearly at the moment the US are not a reliable ally; the very high future cost of the Aukus project; would the US try to strong arm Australia into a Pacific 'policing' roll (on behalf of the US) that would clearly unbalance their trade relationship with China, and at worst bring them into direct confrontation.

I'm happy to be corrected by anyone who knows more details.

So, when they're not making new episodes of MAFS Oz...this is what they talk about.

 

[SouthSaxon]

Totally agree. Europe should consider him a busted flush and crack on which in fairness seems to the case.
From an EU point of view I reckon Turkey will join very shortly, which will drive Putin nuts and confuse the hell out of Trump.

Advisor: Mr President, Turkey has joined the EU.
Trump: Jesus what are we going to do for thanksgiving.
Advisor: It’s not that type of Turkey, Mr President… and can I ask that you stop stapling your tie to the desk.

I think Turkey is still years away from EU membership, honestly. There are two big impediments - 1) they don’t fit the criteria regarding democracy, human rights etc 2) Cyprus / Northern Cyprus, the former being an EU member that has no diplomatic relations with Turkey and the latter being isolated by the EU.

 

[driddles]

Yep. I called it. Pro Trump, pro America premiere of the province of Saskatchewan realizing Trump is wanting russia to ship fertilizer so that Canada loses one of its strongest playing cards with potash

"Saskatchewan Premier Scott Moe says a plan by the United States to restore Russia’s ability to sell fertilizer is a backchannel that funds Ukrainian death and suffering.

“This is the most disturbing action that I think we’ve seen from (U.S. President Donald Trump) since his election,” Moe told legislators Tuesday. LOL

"there are also consequences for Saskatchewan, the world’s largest producer of potash, a mineral used as a fertilizer to help grow crops."

What's that saying again? First they came for....

U.S. plan to restore Russian fertilizer sales is Trump's 'most disturbing action': Saskatchewan premier

"In essence, what he is doing is funding Vladimir Putin's regime ... and funding the death of Ukrainians," Scott Moe said

nationalpost.com

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

I think Turkey is still years away from EU membership, honestly. There are two big impediments - 1) they don’t fit the criteria regarding democracy, human rights etc 2) Cyprus / Northern Cyprus, the former being an EU member that has no diplomatic relations with Turkey and the latter being isolated by the EU.

6 months ago I would have agreed but necessity makes some strange bedfellows.