[Politics] Donald Trump, US President

[Triggaaar]

Nvm

Not sure why you've removed your post. I thought it was a fair point.

 

[Triggaaar]

The actions of Johnson and his cabinet during Covid undoubtably DID cost may thousands of lives

I'm not sure that's undoubted, and lives lost would be down to choices that weren't as good as they could have been (or were worse than they should have been, same difference), rather than siding with an evil dictator whilst knowing it will cost many lives.

and the proroguing of parliament was literally an assault on democracy.

Johnson is very like Trump - just with less power when it came to it. The checks and balances worked a little better here, that's all.

So why did Johnson support Ukraine when Russia invaded in Feb 22?

 

[Scappa]

Not sure why you've removed your post. I thought it was a fair point.

I messed up the quote function - it made no sense in the context of what I ended up responding to

So why did Johnson support Ukraine when Russia invaded in Feb 22?

Because it was the politically expedient thing to do when he saw the direction of travel at the time

 

[Simster]

Just to mention a few things, Trump incited the insurrection on capitol, pretended he didn't, and then pardoned the people that did; he's dismantling the US constitution and removing democracy from the US; he's siding with an evil genocidal dictator, selling Ukraine down the river, and causing many thousands of deaths.

I have no idea how you can compare him to Johnson. Johnson did what was best for himself, but never at the cost of hundreds of thousands of lives, and not at the cost of democracy.

I seem to remember Johnson threatening to prorogue parliament when it threatened to legislate against a no-deal Brexit and only didn't do so when prevented by the courts.

Johnson was more than happy to ride roughshod over democracy when it suited him.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

So why did Johnson support Ukraine when Russia invaded in Feb 22?

In what way is that relevant to anything I have written?

(The glib answer btw, is that he was on his last legs politically, and welcomed the chance to play dress-up)

 

[Scappa]

In what way is that relevant to anything I have written?

(The glib answer btw, is that he was on his last legs politically, and welcomed the chance to play dress-up)

Cosplay Churchill

 

[raymondo]

I

I have a couple of questions about Trump and Co's strategy.

How does he expect to get 'the lowest level of unemployment anyone has ever seen ever', when his mate keeps firing swaths of people and shutting down departments?

And it's all very well getting rid of these horrendous 'foreign' people who are – apparently – doing the worst things ever humanly possible, but what do they plan to do with the 'proper' US citizens (y'know, the white ones, who they like) who go around killing people with their guns that they love so much? What about sorting THAT problem out?

I'm guessing that, as he raises tariffs higher and prices rise in the US, he'll say 'see, we just have to move all manufacturing back to the States '. I'm no economist but I don't think it's that simple - raw materials and parts still have to be imported, and US salaries are higher than China, Mexico, Vietnam... Plus all the investments and timescales involved.

But he may say that...the jobs are coming everyone!!

 

[Simster]

So why did Johnson support Ukraine when Russia invaded in Feb 22?

I'm not sure how this supports your point that Johnson wouldn't do what he liked at the expense of democracy. At the time, Feb 22, there was no reason for Johnson not to support Ukraine was there? Bear in mind that Trump is turning his back on them after the US has spent billions of tax dollars, because his thick supporters would rather have pointless trade tariffs and save that lost money by rolling back on money in a war thousands of miles away.

If there had been a narrative that Brexit was costing billions (he didn't have to, Covid did that for him), and his thick supporters saw withdrawing support from Ukraine as an easy way to claw back money, Johnson would have had no qualms doing the same thing.

Honestly, I think you're very naive if you think our episode with Johnson as PM is an awful lot different to that of the orange prick in the US.

 

[Triggaaar]

I messed up the quote function - it made no sense in the context of what I ended up responding to

Well I knew what it meant.

Because it was the politically expedient thing to do when he saw the direction of travel at the time

Trump has sided with Putin. We can't claim that Johnson might have done the same thing in different circumstances. The fact is, he didn't.

 

[Triggaaar]

In what way is that relevant to anything I have written?

The conversation you joined was about likening Johnson to Trump. I don't think they're comparable, for the reasons given, and you were making an argument for how they are comparable. I'm highlighting that Trump has sided with Putin, whilst Johnson sided with Zelenskyy.

 

[Simster]

Well I knew what it meant.




Trump has sided with Putin. We can't claim that Johnson might have done the same thing in different circumstances. The fact is, he didn't.

Well you claimed that Johnson didn't do anything at the cost of democracy. The fact is, he did.

 

[Triggaaar]

I seem to remember Johnson threatening to prorogue parliament when it threatened to legislate against a no-deal Brexit and only didn't do so when prevented by the courts.

Johnson was more than happy to ride roughshod over democracy when it suited him.

Yes that's true. Like I said, I hated him. But I don't think his actions compare to those of Trump.

 

[Simster]

The conversation you joined was about likening Johnson to Trump. I don't think they're comparable, for the reasons given, and you were making an argument for how they are comparable. I'm highlighting that Trump has sided with Putin, whilst Johnson sided with Zelenskyy.

So what? One of them opportunistically sided with one side and one opportunistically sided with the other. Neither decision was made with the help of any sort of moral compass, and we know this because of both of their track records.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

He won't, and when that becomes clear even to his followers, he'll say he was just being sarcastic.

That's a lot of sarcasm, given that he was going on about it almost as much as ending wars on day one and getting the price of eggs down!

I know he's full of shit, you know he's full of shit, I guess my real question is when will the penny drop (if at all) with the people who voted for him?

 

[Triggaaar]

I'm not sure how this supports your point that Johnson wouldn't do what he liked at the expense of democracy. At the time, Feb 22, there was no reason for Johnson not to support Ukraine was there?

You could equally say that there's no reason for Trump not to support Ukraine. In fact, there's a lot more reason to support Ukraine now, than there was in 2022, as Ukraine have shown themselves to be capable of fighting off Russia. Back then it looked like we could be backing a lost cause, and going against a Putin who would inevitably become more powerful.

Bear in mind that Trump is turning his back on them after the US has spent billions of tax dollars, because his thick supporters would rather have pointless trade tariffs and save that lost money by rolling back on money in a war thousands of miles away.

Trump's thick supporters would follow him regardless. His supporters are anti-Russia, so if Trump said the US were going to support Ukraine and defeat Russia, and a) it wouldn't cost the US taxpayers anything (paid for by minerals deals) and b) the US would benefit from arms sales and more jobs, then he'd get great support for that. Even his opposition would have little to complain about.

Honestly, I think you're very naive if you think our episode with Johnson as PM is an awful lot different to that of the orange prick in the US.

And I think you're blind to the evil of Trump to see them as similar

 

[Triggaaar]

So what? One of them opportunistically sided with one side and one opportunistically sided with the other. Neither decision was made with the help of any sort of moral compass, and we know this because of both of their track records.

We don't know that. What examples are there of Johnson deliberately siding with an evil dictator who's guilty of many war crimes and trying to annex a sovereign county?

 

[Triggaaar]

I know he's full of shit, you know he's full of shit, I guess my real question is when will the penny drop (if at all) with the people who voted for him?

Reading posts by lasvegan, it seems that it won't be any time soon. When do people fooled by a cult come to realise they were fooled?

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Reading posts by lasvegan, it seems that it won't be any time soon. When do people fooled by a cult come to realise they were fooled?

I stopped doing that a LONG time ago!

 

[fly high]

Reading posts by lasvegan, it seems that it won't be any time soon. When do people fooled by a cult come to realise they were fooled?

They don't want to see themselves as gullible idiots so it takes a long, long time.

 

[Simster]

We don't know that. What examples are there of Johnson deliberately siding with an evil dictator who's guilty of many war crimes and trying to annex a sovereign county?

To be honest, you remind me of that meme of a stick-man shouting from his computer to his wife in bed that he couldn't come to bed because someone is wrong on the internet. We'll go round and round on this all day so best agree to disagree.

The bottom line for me is that Trump is a revolting scum bag, but honestly I don't think Johnson was an awful lot different. And at the very least, our country certainly facilitated an immoral leader of its own barely 3 years ago. So as much as I can't stand Trump or the ignorant pricks who put him in the White House, I'm afraid we've lost the moral high ground on the matter.