[TV] Adolescence - Netflix 4 part drama written by and starring Stephen Graham

[Wozza]

I've been researching incels since watching this show. It seems like boys aged 12-15 are having the same issues as every other generation but now they're being told it's because of feminism. I never got laid when I was that age. I was a virgin. I was teased for it (ironically, as most other kids were virgins too). But we didn't label it as a feminist issue, it was just part of growing up. Now I'm much older and I see 80-90% of my male friends having casual sex regularly. It's just an age thing. If they really think only 20% of men are having casual sex they're sorely mistaken.

The difference is that it's amplified times a million.

Boys don't just see one guy at school with a hot girlfriend.

They're bombarded - every day - with videos and imagery of young girls they're never going to date.

Just one part of the issue, of course. But they're made to feel like losers.

(I think there's plenty of data around showing 'intimacy' among kids/young adults has massively dropped off.)

 

[dwayne]

Teenager sentenced to life for south London murder

Andrew Tate says women belong in the home, can’t drive, and are a man’s property. He also thinks rape victims must “bear responsibility” for their attacks

He preached a message aimed at boys and young men that women should be dominated.

Ok but my point stands. Ia there a big increase in boys killing girls in the last 5 years? Would be interesting to see the stats.

Would also be interesting to see how big this incel / tate / Peterson movement is amongst kids. I see there's a couple of people posting on here about it. But I've never had any first hand experience of young boys spouting that women shouldn't drive and rape victims only have themselves to blame.

A lot of this stuff feels like scaremongering.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Ok but my point stands. Ia there a big increase in boys killing girls in the last 5 years? Would be interesting to see the stats.

Would also be interesting to see how big this incel / tate / Peterson movement is amongst kids. I see there's a couple of people posting on here about it. But I've never had any first hand experience of young boys spouting that women shouldn't drive and rape victims only have themselves to blame.

A lot of this stuff feels like scaremongering.

The point is well made in the series, unless you are deeply entwined in the social media groups of young people, you are almost entirely unaware of what's actually going on.

Where would you expect to be exposed to this type of stuff?

Your social media algorithm is unlikely to throw this stuff your way (until you actively start seeking it out).

 

[dwayne]

The point is well made in the series, unless you are deeply entwined in the social media groups of young people, you are almost entirely unaware of what's actually going on.

Where would you expect to be exposed to this type of stuff?

Your social media algorithm is unlikely to throw this stuff your way (until you actively start seeking it out).

Kind of reminds me of my generation when it was parents afraid of hip hop or punk or death metal. Most of this stuff online is not that extreme, it's the media hyping it up to be. Of course people pick out the most extreme crazy shit that Tate says, but back to my point do you see loads of kids spouting this stuff day to day ? Do you see young boys killing young girls in droves , no.



Bizarrely a more accurate representation is a Danny dyer documentary !! Where he interviews real people about these issues, I thought it was quite good. The kids showed intrigue but most saw through some of the nonsense being spouted online.

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/danny-dyer-how-to-be-a-man

 

[schmunk]

Social media companies and mobile network providers need to do far more but for me Apple and Android should have a built in 'kids mode' that is far simpler to use than it is currently, they don't because it doesn't suit them to, they generally leave it to 3rd party apps.

Google Family Link is very simple to use and covers all of the main requirements for limiting access to screen time and apps. It's not built into Android devices, but is prompted for download when you try to set up a device for a child, with a link to download the parent app. It's really very easy to use.

It can't restrict the content within 3rd party apps (e.g. Instagram, Snapchat), but if you don't want your child using them, then they can be blocked.

Beyond this is the parents' responsibility, not Google's.


Apple has a similar, but worse, parental controls software built into iPhones / iPads.

 

[pigmanovich]

Do you see young boys killing young girls in droves , no.

Again, why does it take "droves" of dead young women for you to be concerned? Are Isla Vista CA 2014, Roseburg OR 2015, Toronto and Tallahassee FL 2018, Hanau 2020, Plymouth 2021, Allen TX 2023 too few and far between for you to be disturbed?

 

[Uh_huh_him]

waKind of reminds me of my generation when it was parents afraid of hip hop or punk or death metal. Most of this stuff online is not that extreme, it's the media hyping it up to be. Of course people pick out the most extreme crazy shit that Tate says, but back to my point do you see loads of kids spouting this stuff day to day ? Do you see young boys killing young girls in droves , no.



Bizarrely a more accurate representation is a Danny dyer documentary !! Where he interviews real people about these issues, I thought it was quite good. The kids showed intrigue but most saw through some of the nonsense being spouted online.

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/danny-dyer-how-to-be-a-man

Yeah I agree that the drama is an extreme case, to make the point.
For me, the point of the drama, as that the idea that as long as you are a loving parent, your children will grow up with you as their role model, is increasingly unlikely.

Increasingly, children are learning more about their values, from their online experiences, than they do from what their parents or teachers are telling them.

The argument that there is a lack of good role models for young men is worth exploring.
Particularly for those young men who are growing up with a narrative that masculinity is a negative thing.

 

[Gabbiano]

Anecdotal, but all of my friends who are secondary school teachers have noticed the same thing: since COVID there has been a very noticeable shift in attitude amongst teenage boys.

They are much more rigid around gender norms than before, there is more homophobic and transphobic bullying than before, and more entitlement around getting girls, which is causing no end of problems.

Nothing which has reached the extent shown in the series obviously, but it definitely seems to be a real shift in mentality, being driven by the content that young boys are consuming online.

 

[dwayne]

Anecdotal, but all of my friends who are secondary school teachers have noticed the same thing: since COVID there has been a very noticeable shift in attitude amongst teenage boys.

They are much more rigid around gender norms than before, there is more homophobic and transphobic bullying than before, and more entitlement around getting girls, which is causing no end of problems.

Nothing which has reached the extent shown in the series obviously, but it definitely seems to be a real shift in mentality, being driven by the content that young boys are consuming online.

There's just been a bit of an anti woke backlash. Definitely worth watching the Danny dyer documentary that I posted above you might laugh but it's actually quite insightful.

The big influencers (hsktikkytokky and ed Matthews who is on the DD documentary)at the moment are a bit more like old skool lads. Birds , booze , drugs , ibeefa , piss taking, un-pc.

 

[Jackthelad]

The media and government want a scape goat, and they want someone to pin it all on, it's easier that way, from Tommy Robinson to Andrew Tate. The truth is it's far more complex than that, and it touches on so many issues.
For me banning mobile phones at both primary school and secondary school would be a step forward.

 

[Berty23]

This stuff has been growing for years. It must be about a decade ago when gamergate hit the news. People saying it is anti-woke are idiots imo. It is so odd that people think others should not call out injustice. They want to bring back racism, sexism and homophobia. It is mad and idiotic. Done by creating division with the bonus of making money out of it.

When I was 13 I might try and chat up a girl at a disco and if I got rejected I would forget it immediately and go and do a knee slide or something. Now people getting rejected think of it as being rejected by the female of the species which is not okay and must be part of a hidden agenda. The implication is that males should get whoever they want and females should do as they are told. It is mad.

People denying Andrew Tate and others are a problem are burying head in the sand or being wilfully ignorant. I think the second option is worse.

 

[dwayne]

This stuff has been growing for years. It must be about a decade ago when gamergate hit the news. People saying it is anti-woke are idiots imo. It is so odd that people think others should not call out injustice. They want to bring back racism, sexism and homophobia. It is mad and idiotic. Done by creating division with the bonus of making money out of it.

When I was 13 I might try and chat up a girl at a disco and if I got rejected I would forget it immediately and go and do a knee slide or something. Now people getting rejected think of it as being rejected by the female of the species which is not okay and must be part of a hidden agenda. The implication is that males should get whoever they want and females should do as they are told. It is mad.

People denying Andrew Tate and others are a problem are burying head in the sand or being wilfully ignorant. I think the second option is worse.

Again that second paragraph is a very very niche bunch of freaks mentality. Not what would happen with an average 13 year old. IMHO.

 

[Berty23]

Again that second paragraph is a very very niche bunch of freaks mentality. Not what would happen with an average 13 year old. IMHO.

Do you have kids? I have a 16 year old son and 14 year old twin daughters. I can tell you for a fact that it is not niche. My daughters are both pretty and have rejected advances and been given lots of crap and one had problems with someone basically stalking her about it wanting explanations. My lad knows lots of his peers through secondary school who have been into it. We have discussed it many times over the last few years at the dinner table. It is scary

 

[pigmanovich]

Do you have kids? I have a 16 year old son and 14 year old twin daughters. I can tell you for a fact that it is not niche. My daughters are both pretty and have rejected advances and been given lots of crap and one had problems with someone basically stalking her about it wanting explanations. My lad knows lots of his peers through secondary school who have been into it. We have discussed it many times over the last few years at the dinner table. It is scary

This is spot on, and in any case it’s laughable and indeed negligent to argue we should only be concerned by issues that may affect the “average” teen boy. If only the odd teen boy is radicalized and goes on to harm or worse kill the girls around them that’s still a great many lives lost or shattered.

 

[Justice]

Do you have kids? I have a 16 year old son and 14 year old twin daughters. I can tell you for a fact that it is not niche. My daughters are both pretty and have rejected advances and been given lots of crap and one had problems with someone basically stalking her about it wanting explanations. My lad knows lots of his peers through secondary school who have been into it. We have discussed it many times over the last few years at the dinner table. It is scary

Same with my daughter although she’s 21 now I felt like beating the shit out of twat teenage boys when she was school age. The only time I did go searching for someone was when an older man started on her. Unfortunately or fortunately we never spotted him.

 

[dwayne]

Do you have kids? I have a 16 year old son and 14 year old twin daughters. I can tell you for a fact that it is not niche. My daughters are both pretty and have rejected advances and been given lots of crap and one had problems with someone basically stalking her about it wanting explanations. My lad knows lots of his peers through secondary school who have been into it. We have discussed it many times over the last few years at the dinner table. It is scary

Again though, not saying it's right but is this really any worse than 20 / 30 years ago ? There have always been aggressive morons about. I remember lads reacting badly to being rejected at school and bullying the girls back.

 

[Arthur]

Watched the first episode yesterday and just done the last three in one hit. Amazing television. The acting and the camera work is worth the watch alone. Does get a bit heavy going in the last two episodes but I guess it's a pretty heavy subject matter so to be expected.

The second episode in the school is mind boggling how they managed to have that many kids involved and not one of them did anything daft to ruin the shot.

Given the way it's shot having an episode about the trail wouldn't have been feasible unless it was perhaps them going in to court for sentencing. I certainly feel like there was room for one more episode perhaps visiting Jamie in clink?

 

[pigmanovich]

Again though, not saying it's right but is this really any worse than 20 / 30 years ago ? There have always been aggressive morons about. I remember lads reacting badly to being rejected at school and bullying the girls back.

Yes, it’s worse - there is now a whole information ecosystem, complete with its own ideologist-demagogues, fueling paranoia and resentment towards women. Did you have that around you in school?

 

[Berty23]

Again though, not saying it's right but is this really any worse than 20 / 30 years ago ? There have always been aggressive morons about. I remember lads reacting badly to being rejected at school and bullying the girls back.

It is far far worse. When I was at school in the 90s rejection was accepted as part of life. Now it is seen by many as a personal attack. “Who do you think you are rejecting Me?”

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Again though, not saying it's right but is this really any worse than 20 / 30 years ago ? There have always been aggressive morons about. I remember lads reacting badly to being rejected at school and bullying the girls back.

Yes.