[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Eric the meek]

It is inconceivable that Steve Witkoff, the unelected US Special Envoy to the middle east, but not Ukraine, could be so stupid as to believe the elections in the occupied territories were free and fair.

He is - of course - following orders. Trump wants a peace agreement, and will sell his soul, and force his staff to sell theirs as well, to deliver it.

 

[raymondo]

If it all goes horribly wrong that will be the least of our worries.
I do know from working in a European joint venture that the brits invariably acted as peace maker and so I’m not so surprised.

I have the same experience from European projects.

 

[Sirnormangall]

Have another bottle, tomorrow you will come to your senses, hopefully…

Please enlighten us as to why you think that

 

[Nobby]

Please enlighten us as to why you think that

I don’t know why we let Americans on here to be honest. Especially this redneck weirdo
The majority of them seem to be thick as mince - with no idea of what goes on anywhere else
Very similar to the hardcore Reform supporters here in the UK - just deep down stupid - influenced by a few billionaires to believe that it’s not the billionaires who have made them stupid.

 

[Rdodge30]

you could actually be bothered to put together a silly montage, but not explain it. you are incoherent at best

In response to repeated “Trump is in Putin’s pocket” posts, I posted pictures of the last 4 American presidents laughing and joking with Putin.

No caption was needed - at most I would’ve written ‘food for thought’ or ‘make of it what you will’…..there are dozens more photos by the way, Blair and Putin having a jolly old laugh, Brown, Boris, Macron, etc The only exception I’ve found is Theresa May has got a face like thunder when she was photographed with Putin, so credit where credit’s due.

This does not mean that I am pro Trump, it was simply a bit of perspective.

I do not believe for one second that Trump cares about the Ukrainian People. Putin certainly doesn’t but increasingly I think that Zelenskyy, Macron and Starmer don’t either.

Any one of the above faced with the options of either war and multi billion pound arms deals .. or peace but no money would choose war in my opinion.

Where I feel I differ from most on here is that I don’t believe that the people apparently opposing evil are necessarily good. Just because Putin and Trump are both c***s doesn’t mean that Zelenskyy and Macron are on the side of the Angels.

How anyone can look at the behaviour of Macron or Starmer and say they want peace is astonishing to me and in the scenario I mentioned in my previous post they are no different to Trump…

Europe is putting together £150 billion war chest.

Trump wants it spent on American weapons
Starmer wants it spent on British weapons
Macron wants it spent on French weapons
Zelenskyy wants more than £150 billion


Name me the peace makers there because I don’t see any - all I see is warmongering

 

[raymondo]

Some people make extraordinary moves with their lives

 

[raymondo]

In response to repeated “Trump is in Putin’s pocket” posts, I posted pictures of the last 4 American presidents laughing and joking with Putin.

No caption was needed - at most I would’ve written ‘food for thought’ or ‘make of it what you will’…..there are dozens more photos by the way, Blair and Putin having a jolly old laugh, Brown, Boris, Macron, etc The only exception I’ve found is Theresa May has got a face like thunder when she was photographed with Putin, so credit where credit’s due.

This does not mean that I am pro Trump, it was simply a bit of perspective.

I do not believe for one second that Trump cares about the Ukrainian People. Putin certainly doesn’t but increasingly I think that Zelenskyy, Macron and Starmer don’t either.

Any one of the above faced with the options of either war and multi billion pound arms deals .. or peace but no money would choose war in my opinion.

Where I feel I differ from most on here is that I don’t believe that the people apparently opposing evil are necessarily good. Just because Putin and Trump are both c***s doesn’t mean that Zelenskyy and Macron are on the side of the Angels.

How anyone can look at the behaviour of Macron or Starmer and say they want peace is astonishing to me and in the scenario I mentioned in my previous post they are no different to Trump…

Europe is putting together £150 billion war chest.

Trump wants it spent on American weapons
Starmer wants it spent on British weapons
Macron wants it spent on French weapons
Zelenskyy wants more than £150 billion


Name me the peace makers there because I don’t see any - all I see is warmongering

What's your suggestion for long lasting peace with Putin, one that is totally fair to Ukraine and what she's been through?

 

[rogersix]

In response to repeated “Trump is in Putin’s pocket” posts, I posted pictures of the last 4 American presidents laughing and joking with Putin.

No caption was needed - at most I would’ve written ‘food for thought’ or ‘make of it what you will’…..there are dozens more photos by the way, Blair and Putin having a jolly old laugh, Brown, Boris, Macron, etc The only exception I’ve found is Theresa May has got a face like thunder when she was photographed with Putin, so credit where credit’s due.

This does not mean that I am pro Trump, it was simply a bit of perspective.

I do not believe for one second that Trump cares about the Ukrainian People. Putin certainly doesn’t but increasingly I think that Zelenskyy, Macron and Starmer don’t either.

Any one of the above faced with the options of either war and multi billion pound arms deals .. or peace but no money would choose war in my opinion.

Where I feel I differ from most on here is that I don’t believe that the people apparently opposing evil are necessarily good. Just because Putin and Trump are both c***s doesn’t mean that Zelenskyy and Macron are on the side of the Angels.

How anyone can look at the behaviour of Macron or Starmer and say they want peace is astonishing to me and in the scenario I mentioned in my previous post they are no different to Trump…

Europe is putting together £150 billion war chest.

Trump wants it spent on American weapons
Starmer wants it spent on British weapons
Macron wants it spent on French weapons
Zelenskyy wants more than £150 billion


Name me the peace makers there because I don’t see any - all I see is warmongering

you see the worst in people because that is what you are like. would you like to see the right outcome, if so, what is it?

 

[essbee1]

Please enlighten us as to why you think that

ignore them mate. They'll soon f*** off.

 

[Rdodge30]

you see the worst in people because that is what you are like.

That’s unfair mate ? If you said I see the worst in politicians/world leaders because that’s what I’m like then yes , you would have a point.

Although I would challenge anyone to make a list of world leaders they are supportive of?

However to say that I see the worst in people because that’s what I’m like is wide of the mark and a bit uncalled for.

 

[Rdodge30]

What's your suggestion for long lasting peace with Putin, one that is totally fair to Ukraine and what she's been through?

would you like to see the right outcome, if so, what is it?

To be absolutely honest, short of assassination of a head of state and regime change in Russia, I do not have any answers as to the solution- any more than I have answers as to the solution in Gaza, Sudan or DRC.

I’m just commenting on the people involved and I don’t see any of them wanting peace no matter what they say, and I think that could also be said for the world leaders in the Middle East

 

[GoldstoneVintage]

Wankov/ Witless is far worse than that sound bite yesterday suggested. Notice they are also bringing that traitor, Tucker Carlson back in from the cold. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c62zm4eqvp7o

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

What's your suggestion for long lasting peace with Putin, one that is totally fair to Ukraine and what she's been through?

You are going to be waiting a fair old time.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

In response to repeated “Trump is in Putin’s pocket” posts, I posted pictures of the last 4 American presidents laughing and joking with Putin.

No caption was needed - at most I would’ve written ‘food for thought’ or ‘make of it what you will’…..there are dozens more photos by the way, Blair and Putin having a jolly old laugh, Brown, Boris, Macron, etc The only exception I’ve found is Theresa May has got a face like thunder when she was photographed with Putin, so credit where credit’s due.

This does not mean that I am pro Trump, it was simply a bit of perspective.

I do not believe for one second that Trump cares about the Ukrainian People. Putin certainly doesn’t but increasingly I think that Zelenskyy, Macron and Starmer don’t either.

Any one of the above faced with the options of either war and multi billion pound arms deals .. or peace but no money would choose war in my opinion.

Where I feel I differ from most on here is that I don’t believe that the people apparently opposing evil are necessarily good. Just because Putin and Trump are both c***s doesn’t mean that Zelenskyy and Macron are on the side of the Angels.

How anyone can look at the behaviour of Macron or Starmer and say they want peace is astonishing to me and in the scenario I mentioned in my previous post they are no different to Trump…

Europe is putting together £150 billion war chest.

Trump wants it spent on American weapons
Starmer wants it spent on British weapons
Macron wants it spent on French weapons
Zelenskyy wants more than £150 billion


Name me the peace makers there because I don’t see any - all I see is warmongering

Explain to me why Zelensky doesn’t want peace? Hint: because Putin will wipe Ukraine of the face of the earth.

 

[Hugo Rune]

How anyone can look at the behaviour of Macron or Starmer and say they want peace is astonishing to me and in the scenario I mentioned in my previous post they are no different to Trump…

Europe is putting together £150 billion war chest.

Trump wants it spent on American weapons
Starmer wants it spent on British weapons
Macron wants it spent on French weapons
Zelenskyy wants more than £150 billion


Name me the peace makers there because I don’t see any - all I see is warmongering

I have a pal with a similar views to yours. His comprehension of statesmanship, international politics and diplomacy is also clouded by a deep hatred of Macron and Starmer. He has no clue of how you deal with a dictator like Putin, he just gets red in the face and very angry when Starmer threatens to send troops to Ukraine for a peacekeeping force. He can’t or won’t understand why Starmer would do such a thing?

Macron and Starmer want peace. Look at the affect the invasion of Ukraine has had on European economies. Peace is in the interests of all the people you mention.

But there is a price to be paid for peace when the aggressor is Russia and Putin. Currently, that price is too high because Russia’s price is essentially a license for Putin to continue his evil despotism and invasions.

The allies achieved peace after WW2 by defeating the evil Nazis. We got a long lasting peace. I suspect any long lasting peace we get in Ukraine needs to be one that sees Russia pushed out of that country and Putin subsequently toppled. Until Putin is dead, a true peace in Ukraine is very unlikely. Starmer and Macron can sit back and take the approach of Trump or they can stand up to a dictator similar to how Churchill did.

It strikes me that you are after the sort of peace that crowns Putin and Russia the short term victors. It’s the only realistic peace scenario I agree, but it’s a Chamberlain approach, a short term gain for what could be another world war in the long term. I suspect that you are seduced by this Chamberlain style appeasement plan for Ukraine coming out of Trump’s mouth.

Luckily, your opinion is not one that is shared by most Britons, perhaps because of our education system that teaches kids about WW2 and what you have to do to tackle a dictatorship.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

In response to repeated “Trump is in Putin’s pocket” posts, I posted pictures of the last 4 American presidents laughing and joking with Putin.

No caption was needed - at most I would’ve written ‘food for thought’ or ‘make of it what you will’…..there are dozens more photos by the way, Blair and Putin having a jolly old laugh, Brown, Boris, Macron, etc The only exception I’ve found is Theresa May has got a face like thunder when she was photographed with Putin, so credit where credit’s due.

This does not mean that I am pro Trump, it was simply a bit of perspective.

I do not believe for one second that Trump cares about the Ukrainian People. Putin certainly doesn’t but increasingly I think that Zelenskyy, Macron and Starmer don’t either.

Any one of the above faced with the options of either war and multi billion pound arms deals .. or peace but no money would choose war in my opinion.

Where I feel I differ from most on here is that I don’t believe that the people apparently opposing evil are necessarily good. Just because Putin and Trump are both c***s doesn’t mean that Zelenskyy and Macron are on the side of the Angels.

How anyone can look at the behaviour of Macron or Starmer and say they want peace is astonishing to me and in the scenario I mentioned in my previous post they are no different to Trump…

Europe is putting together £150 billion war chest.

Trump wants it spent on American weapons
Starmer wants it spent on British weapons
Macron wants it spent on French weapons
Zelenskyy wants more than £150 billion


Name me the peace makers there because I don’t see any - all I see is warmongering

Trump is the only one who was photographed when he wasn’t a world leader.

you still haven’t told us how to get peace in Ukraine that is fair to the Ukrainians, you know , people who live in Ukraine?

 

[peterward]

Phillips O'brien latest.

Weekend Update #125: The Trump-Putin Call; Stop Being Shocked!

An "Energy" Only Ceasefire Makes No Sense; Stop Being Shocked 2—Witkoff Speaks

open.substack.com

 

[SouthSaxon]

In response to repeated “Trump is in Putin’s pocket” posts, I posted pictures of the last 4 American presidents laughing and joking with Putin.

No caption was needed - at most I would’ve written ‘food for thought’ or ‘make of it what you will’…..there are dozens more photos by the way, Blair and Putin having a jolly old laugh, Brown, Boris, Macron, etc The only exception I’ve found is Theresa May has got a face like thunder when she was photographed with Putin, so credit where credit’s due.

This does not mean that I am pro Trump, it was simply a bit of perspective.

I do not believe for one second that Trump cares about the Ukrainian People. Putin certainly doesn’t but increasingly I think that Zelenskyy, Macron and Starmer don’t either.

Any one of the above faced with the options of either war and multi billion pound arms deals .. or peace but no money would choose war in my opinion.

Where I feel I differ from most on here is that I don’t believe that the people apparently opposing evil are necessarily good. Just because Putin and Trump are both c***s doesn’t mean that Zelenskyy and Macron are on the side of the Angels.

How anyone can look at the behaviour of Macron or Starmer and say they want peace is astonishing to me and in the scenario I mentioned in my previous post they are no different to Trump…

Europe is putting together £150 billion war chest.

Trump wants it spent on American weapons
Starmer wants it spent on British weapons
Macron wants it spent on French weapons
Zelenskyy wants more than £150 billion


Name me the peace makers there because I don’t see any - all I see is warmongering

Where we differ on this in our perceptions:

Diplomacy is a dirty business. It often involves being pleasant to very unpleasant people. Those photos don’t tell us anything meaningful

Trump’s decisions show us the true difference - he is publicly siding with the aggressor in a brutal war that will decide whether Ukraine continues to exist as an independent nation and culture. None of the other names you mentioned acted this way

A key aspect of this is Russia’s war goals. They seek the eradication of Ukraine, its language and its culture. In the land they occupy, they are already working on ethnic cleansing and cultural indoctrination. There is evidence for both, including the militarisation of Ukrainian children

Zelenskyy, Starmer and Macron know that Putin won’t stop and be satisfied with what he has now. He wants all of Ukraine. Then he wants Moldova. Then the three Baltic states. Maybe Poland too. Russian propagandists talk openly about destroying Europe and its institutions. There is no peace until Putin is forced to accept one. Trump’s current effort is an embarrassing sideshow as far as Putin is concerned.

They also know, or at least strongly suspect, that more Ukrainians will be killed under occupation than in war because of how Russia will treat them. Evidence for this would be what happened in Melitopol, Bukha and other cities

Trump likely knows the above two as well but doesn’t care.

Every European leader knows they need to beef up their military because they can no longer rely on US protection and because of the risk this presents of further attacks from Russia. This is about deterrence, looking stronger, not their own thirst for war.

 

[rogersix]

That’s unfair mate ? If you said I see the worst in politicians/world leaders because that’s what I’m like then yes , you would have a point.

Although I would challenge anyone to make a list of world leaders they are supportive of?

However to say that I see the worst in people because that’s what I’m like is wide of the mark and a bit uncalled for.

humans are all about motivations, you are simply projecting

 

[Hugo Rune]

That’s unfair mate?

If you said I see the worst in politicians/world leaders because that’s what I’m like then yes, you would have a point.

I don’t think you see the worst in everyone.

But (and I’ll reference my pal again), you seem to have some sort of oppositional defiant disorder when it comes to politicians and world leaders. Your posts have always made it clear that you carry an inherent bias against those in charge. The phrase ‘they are all the same’ could be your mantra or perhaps epitaph!

For me, it’s a judgement thing. No one is perfect, no one is purely altruistic so why judge them on being Jesus-like when no human can match that standard of morality.

It’s about recognition of what drives someone. For Trump, it’s simple. Money and power. A bully that has lived his life in a force field made from inherited wealth and expensive lawyers where he can sexually abuse women, win golf tournaments and commit fraud after fraud as another one of his wretched companies goes bust. But does Macron or Starmer have the same motivations as Trump? If I were a billionaire right wing media mogul, I’d be spending my time, efforts and resources convincing people like you that they do. Money and power. Money and power. Money and power….