[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

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GoldstoneVintage

GoldstoneVintage

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Oct 20, 2024
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Europe
Bodian said:
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Maybe this could be a good thing - as he might see that Russia / Putin has no intention of ceasing fire or wanting peace?
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I just don't trust him. Is this to deflect from those accusing him of favouring Russia over Ukraine? He's still aiming for Ukraine's capitulation.
 




fly high

fly high

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Aug 25, 2011
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Eric the meek said:
Did anyone notice?

'Based on the fact that Russia is absolutely "pounding" Ukraine on the battlefield right now......'

He is perpetuating the narrative that Ukraine is losing the war. The very narrative that Zelensky corrected him on in the Oval Office.

But Russia is pounding Ukrainian civilian targets, not military targets. Bombing apartment blocks, hotels and hospitals is certainly brutal, but it isn't strategically effective.

Perhaps I'm reading too much into it, and it was just Trump being clumsy. Yes, that'll be it.
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I don't care if he's getting it out of his arse if he makes life more difficult for Russia than he previous route of travel.
 




B

Bodian

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May 3, 2012
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Deportivo Seagull

Deportivo Seagull

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Jul 22, 2003
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GoldstoneVintage said:
I just don't trust him. Is this to deflect from those accusing him of favouring Russia over Ukraine? He's still aiming for Ukraine's capitulation.
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That would be yes, most probably, and yes BUT when he started this, Europe was just a collection of countries, however now it’s a united and very pissed of group of countries, who I genuinely believe are determined to put Putin in his box AND ween itself of the need for US might. The defence budget that has been proposed by the Europe is massive!
 




peterward

peterward

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Nov 11, 2009
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Deportivo Seagull said:
Interesting that Hungary and Slovakia signed up for this. I think both have seen just how loathed Putin is and his interference in world politics makes their position just a tad twitchy. The fact that Europe appears to have said ‘Hold my coat’ when it comes to Putin will really make them nervous. Trump running around like a toddler on blue smarties (apologies to toddlers) being a prick will also make them nervous. A joy to behold.
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Eric the meek said:
You're right. I didn't give the inclusion of Hungary and Slovakia the attention it warrants.

I'm guessing that either they've both had a volte-face or, somewhat more likely, they both came under pressure from the EU. But I fear their continued presence at the EU table means a real risk of EU policy and detail of defence moves being shared with Putin in advance of it entering the public domain.

'Apologies to toddlers' - I like it. (y)
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raymondo said:
Absolutely - maybe Hungary and Slovakia didn't want their EU funding cut. Also, Hungarian elections soonest... maybe Orban trying to look reasonably European. We'll see.
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From what I can gather both Hungary and Slovakia intially said theyd vote against. Slovakia flipped first when EU agreed to include some text in a resolution, that Ukraine should work with Slovakia to restore gas transit through Ukraine to Slovakia (switched off a couple of months ago). Hungary was then alone, intially saying it was still going to vote against.

The EU moved to an article 7 session of the european treaty (which Hungary signed up to), which would strip Hungary of its voting rights.... with a simple 50% + 1 majority in favour.......



then kapam, Hungary suddenly votes for it!

Just like Putin, Orban will respond to strength and he will boot lick and obstruct for Putin without it.

If youre really bored https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-...rticle-7-of-the-treaty-on-european-union.html
 


Eric the meek

Eric the meek

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Deportivo Seagull said:
That would be yes, most probably, and yes BUT when he started this, Europe was just a collection of countries, however now it’s a united and very pissed of group of countries, who I genuinely believe are determined to put Putin in his box AND ween itself of the need for US might. The defence budget that has been proposed by the Europe is massive!
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I'm pretty sure the EU 800 billion euros is for manufacture of weapons as well as the procurement and deployment of them.

It's still over double the false figure that Trump claimed the US had spent - $350 billion, and about six times the figure that they have actually spent - $130 billion.
 


GoldstoneVintage

GoldstoneVintage

Well-known member
Oct 20, 2024
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Europe
Deportivo Seagull said:
That would be yes, most probably, and yes BUT when he started this, Europe was just a collection of countries, however now it’s a united and very pissed of group of countries, who I genuinely believe are determined to put Putin in his box AND ween itself of the need for US might. The defence budget that has been proposed by the Europe is massive!
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Indeed. Unintended consequences and all that.
 












R

raymondo

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Apr 26, 2017
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peterward said:
From what I can gather both Hungary and Slovakia intially said theyd vote against. Slovakia flipped first when EU agreed to include some text in a resolution, that Ukraine should work with Slovakia to restore gas transit through Ukraine to Slovakia (switched off a couple of months ago). Hungary was then alone, intially saying it was still going to vote against.

The EU moved to an article 7 session of the european treaty (which Hungary signed up to), which would strip Hungary of its voting rights.... with a simple 50% + 1 majority in favour.......



then kapam, Hungary suddenly votes for it!

Just like Putin, Orban will respond to strength and he will boot lick and obstruct for Putin without it.

If youre really bored https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-...rticle-7-of-the-treaty-on-european-union.html
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Thanks for the analysis 👍
 










Triggaaar

Triggaaar

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Oct 24, 2005
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Deportivo Seagull said:
That would be yes, most probably, and yes BUT when he started this, Europe was just a collection of countries, however now it’s a united and very pissed of group of countries, who I genuinely believe are determined to put Putin in his box AND ween itself of the need for US might. The defence budget that has been proposed by the Europe is massive!
Click to expand...

I liked Donald Tusk's comment: "500 million Europeans ask 300 million Americans to protect them from 140 million Russians!"

Stop f***ing about Europe, you got this
 




peterward

peterward

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Deportivo Seagull said:
The gloves are off for the EU when it comes to Putin. They know he’s trying to break the EU so any lapdog in one the EU member countries isn’t going to get any slack. Slovakia and Hungary know this as they also know that the money train has ended from Putin.

The arrest of the Welsh leader of Reform for corruption and spouting pre Putin propaganda will have many across Europe very nervous. It‘s no surprise that the right wing groups in Europe have suddenly become very quiet in the realisation that any Putin links are going to be investigated. Farage for instance has been very, very quiet …. It makes you wonder……
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This is great and it already is a hybrid war, maybe not a shooting war yet for us here, but there are dark forces using lies, disinformation, social media etc with the explicit determination to fracture and divide society and help where possible, install neo facsist aligned alt/far right governements.

From Putin across the world, and especially in Europe with Afd, Front National, even Reform, to MAGA in US, Musk/JD Vances interventions to try and help Afd, and Musk being the pied piper of X throttling content, shadow banning certain truthful or opposing opinions, whilst promoting far right views and deliberate deceptions to divide.

We need to go after all that imho. We could make a European based X/Facebook/Amazon it cant be that hard and go after X (freedom of speech is not a licence to lie with ulterior intent to divide socities or intefere in elections).

We need to get serious about rigorously defending against any forces that seek to destroy our values or way of life. Thats "Neo Idealism" https://www.bylinesupplement.com/p/the-rise-of-the-new-idealists

As for the shooting war, Wholeheartedly concur with Starmer/Macron on the need of a Coalition of troops on the ground in Ukraine with a peace deal. We need to potentially stand up for our freedoms and values.

1. Because Putin will not honour any deal and without it, we're facing another South Vietnam, who after signed deal and US pulled out, were overun 2 years later.
2. Because if/when that happens, Putin 100% has bigger ambitions, and its far better to have that fight in Ukraine, if its going to happen, with a motivated Ukrainian army next to you, than have it at Poland/Latvia border without battle harderned army of a defeated Ukraine, now part of a stronger Russia.
 
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WATFORD zero

WATFORD zero

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Eric the meek said:
My personal opinion is that it is 100% nailed on that Farage is on the Kremlin payroll.

Brexit would have absolutely been front and centre of Putin's hybrid war to divide Europe. And it worked of course. It split the UK, and the EU, taking attention away from Russian activity elsewhere. Russia had it sown up. Bot farms fomenting unrest, promoting racism and bigotry, funding the far right, and encouraging migration and refugee flows. The routes are extended across Europe for maximum disruption (e.g. Syria to Germany to UK).
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Having failed to get elected to Parliament 7 times, Farage was absolutely desperate and would have taken money and social media backing from anybody in order to get some sort of political recognition. There were a few clues but it was always really shady where the money was coming from. That's no longer the case.

All those Good British patriots voting exactly way Russia wanted them to.

And there's still one or two for whom the penny hasn't yet dropped :facepalm:
 


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