[Albion] The OFFICIAL what’s gone wrong with our season thread

[London Irish]

Dunno about that. He was brilliant on his debut at Arsenal, and never looked backed.

Suggested he should have been selected a lot, lot sooner.

Hit the ground running, unlike say Biss or Mac.

Yes agree with that but took a while for him to be selected, as you indicate. Would it had gone as well if he'd have been chucked in straight away without that long preparation in training? You might be right but looking at his floundering now maybe good old Potts got it just right

 

[Weststander]

Bournemouth also spent lot of money in the previous January and effectively halted their downward trajectory. We played them in February 2023 and won with a narrow 1-0 victory but they had purchased 3 or 4 strong, quick and skilful players in the January window and it was clear they were significantly better as a result.

Yep, a £50m spend in Jan 23 plus some loanees kept Plucky up, until then certs for the drop. Giving them pace, directness and goals.

And we’re told that there’s no value in the January transfer window.

 

[Hiheidi]

Yep, a £50m spend in Jan 23 plus some loanees kept Plucky up, until then certs for the drop. Giving them pace, directness and goals.

And we’re told that there’s no value in the January transfer window.

Yes! This January, Palace bought Wharton for £18m and Villa got Rogers for £8m, both are already making an impact.

 

[Jim in the West]

Yes! This January, Palace bought Wharton for £18m and Villa got Rogers for £8m, both are already making an impact.

And we got Barco, who is also making an impact, and has probably got a higher ceiling than both Wharton and Rogers (although I agree both of them are very decent players).

We also (incidentally) bought four other youngsters who are definitely “ones for the future”, and did the deal for Osman.

 

[zefarelly]

Alright. Since you ask, and have flattered my tiny shriveled ego, you smooth-talking lovely man.....

I'm guessing now, mind....

Peak RDZ Brighton requires a sufficiency of fit experienced players who are on it and who can bring forth the daring of the youngsters, with the results feeding the confidence and the confidence feeding the passion and the passion and confidence seeding the results.

Tug at a cut thread and the whole may start to unravel. Losing key players; losing emerging players; losing experienced players; losing; losing; drawing; losing.....

We don't have a statue of the equivalent of Bob Paisley outside the Amex. We have never been here before. All of our players have dreams of being like someone who plays or played for someone else. They don't have anyone who has been here to live up to. Or to live unto.

And the manager has to marry passion with pragmatism, and perhaps his message is getting lost, with these pioneer players, making history for a club that has never come remotely close to success, and I include two plucky cup finals against the world's most entitled and cocky club, steeped in its history, in that analysis.

I am hoping for some bounce back next season, with whatever manager the owner considers the most appropriate. And I'd like to see some real history created over the next 5 years. A trophy at very least. Then we may start to flower rather than wax and wane. But not just yet.

How's that? My wormy opinion for what it's worth (nothing).

This is it . . .a bit like being called to dep bass for a great local band when I was 19 . . . Getting very excited, then shitting myself, fresh levis, turn up and rock it . . . . If I'd turned up and threre's been 3 teenagers it would have been shit . . . . But they were seasoned good musicians. Interestingly, I got the same call last year and the singer (75) said there was a young lad drumming (21) who'm I'd never even met . . . It went very well indeed. Kids these days!

It's all about Balance.

RDZ's scales need recalibrating

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

And we got Barco, who is also making an impact, and has probably got a higher ceiling than both Wharton and Rogers (although I agree both of them are very decent players).

We also (incidentally) bought four other youngsters who are definitely “ones for the future”, and did the deal for Osman.

Ulloa. And others.

See, because we have recruited in winter and the players came good this proves our failure, er to consistently recruit in a panic has really cost us bigtime. Fact.

 

[zefarelly]

And we got Barco, who is also making an impact, and has probably got a higher ceiling than both Wharton and Rogers (although I agree both of them are very decent players).

We also (incidentally) bought four other youngsters who are definitely “ones for the future”, and did the deal for Osman.

If people can't accept we are the Beef bourguignon in a slow cooker as opposed to the flash fried spam fritter of recruitment yet, they never will.

I just hope chucking kids in the deep end, repeatedly this season, hasn't done more harm than good. . . . This is why Ferguson is out IMO, he's fatigued mentally, and physically. . .he needs time to recuperate and come back better, likewise Hinsh Jr . . . A physical injury is one thing, but keeping the brain in order is crucial . . . He's a kid.

 

[dazzer6666]

If people can't accept we are the Beef bourguignon in a slow cooker as opposed to the flash fried spam fritter of recruitment yet, they never will.

I just hope chucking kids in the deep end, repeatedly this season, hasn't done more harm than good. . . . This is why Ferguson is out IMO, he's fatigued mentally, and physically. . .he needs time to recuperate and come back better, likewise Hinsh Jr . . . A physical injury is one thing, but keeping the brain in order is crucial . . . He's a kid.

Hinsh seems to be enjoying watching……..was at Bournemouth and Brentford.

 

[Machiavelli]

I think Brighton are a fascinating club. Historically, they are on for one of their best ever finishes. Even in this Premier League era, they are doing well.

However, their standards have been set and living up to them is incredibly difficult. I mentioned this theme in an answer on West Ham earlier. Last season, Kaoru Mitoma, Pervis Estupinan and Evan Ferguson were all superb. This season they have largely been injured. In addition they sold Alexis Mac Allister and Moises Caicedo. And on top of all that, they had a European campaign to contend with.

Like West Ham, Brighton are not a club who can pay huge amounts of money on players to fill out a squad to use when injuries bite. Roberto De Zerbi has had to manage that situation. While David Moyes gets criticised for being too negative, De Zerbi is too open.

The truth is neither club has the squad depth needed to compete across a 38 game season, with European demands added in. The respective managers try and deal with the situation in the best way they can.

Neil, a Hammer in Edinburgh: Afternoon Simon. Do you think it’s time for David Moyes to move on, and who do you think should replace him if he does? Personally think it’s time, four wins in 2024 just isn’t good enough with our squad, which he refuses to use. Cheers.

Well, there are a lot of names being linked with the job and it is also clear a lot of fans are not having David Moyes, no matter what he has done for the club.

I can see both sides of the argument. Three successive European campaigns is unprecedented for West Ham. Top 10 Premier League finishes, which still looks likely, are not ‘the norm’. But I see fans want more attractive football.

My issue with that is, do West Ham have the resource to build the kind of squad fans want? They have attractive players, but where is the back-up when those players are either injured or not playing well? The difference between a club like West Ham and Manchester City is that City can spend £50m on a player then stick them on the bench. West Ham can’t do that. Brighton are struggling for the same reason this season.

I am not going to say ‘be careful what you wish for’ because no-one can look into the future. But putting together football teams is not as simple as it appears sometimes. The young lads have done well at Under-18 and Under-21 level but if they were good enough, they would be playing.

Yes, agree with you.
One of the things that's gone wrong this season is that us as fans have got heightened and unrealistic expectations. We had the best season ever last season and a thrilling European journey this season, but we've always been near the bottom of the table in player wages -- which is the metric that best predicts where a team finishes in the table -- and our model of selling our best players leaves you open to problems such as not replacing players adequately (which is often impossible, see: Ali Mac and Moises), new signings not being ready (see Baleba), bad signings (there's been a few), and so on.
To that list I've bolded above, there's loads of others that can be added: March most prominently, but also Enciso who was looking like a world-beater prior to his injury, Hinshelwood too who provided so much joy but similarly his injury generated deflation. These injuries -- added to the loss of Mac and Moises (and several other departures during prior windows) -- have just put too much strain on what we can do. Each injury has had a knock-on effect too, putting more pressure on the remaining players.
But RDZ over the past few months has hardly helped things. He has been and can be so inspirational and motivational, but when he's mood's down he at least gives the impression of bringing everyone else down with him. Who knows what's been going on, is doing so currently, and what will materialise in the weeks ahead between him and TB/PB.

The most important thing I take from all this is it's incredibly hard in the PL. Too many of us forgot that for a year or so. We need to get back to recognising it. We've got to earn our continuity in the PL, each point and each place in the table.

 

[sant andreu]

We needed a couple of experienced players who weren't teenagers, but also weren't at the end of their career, who could actually play twice a week.

Totally agree.
Like someone said, it's a combination of things, and some blame has to go to RdZ, for sure. However, there is this thing about age, even if it is just one aspect of the model/transfer policy. This season our older players are all a year older than last season (stating the obvious, but it matters), and overall the younger ones are younger.
In contrast, other teams have more players in their prime (perhaps very approximately ages 23 to 31??), and that difference has become more and more important (we look less capable of doing anything against them on the pitch) as the various factors mentioned in this thread have taken their toll.
We've got to keep hold of the likes of JVPH and João Pedro who are approaching their prime. If that's not 'the model', I fear the model's unsustainable.

 

[Krafty]

This is where I think it has gone wrong:

• Poor Recruitment (Fati, Dahoud, etc.)
• Lack of Investment
• More Matches
• Players Underperforming, Lack of Motivation (RDZ departure?)
• Poor Tactical Decisions (Changing Keepers, Set-Pieces, etc.)

 

[Seagull Stew]

For me, it's a case of maybe we started the season better than we should have done. We did not spend big in January, but now we have more money to spend in the summer. We have just played our first season ever in European football and at the same time are going to finish 13th or 14th in the Premier League. I know we need to move forward and can't keep harping back to 1997 for reference, but hell, we would have all taken this position two years ago!

I am returning to the UK in June to live after 17 years on the other side of the world and I can't wait for the new season to start. As the old phrase goes, "Keep the faith!"

 

[Mackenzie]

For me, the main thing that's gone wrong, is the opposition kicking the ball into our net more frequently than we've kicked it into theirs.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I think psychologically it has been hard for the manager and the players to deal with elimination from Europe, and that feeling this season might have been a one-off.

The injuries, the relentlessness of the Premier League, just the fact we have a lot of young and inexperienced players. It has been hard for them to deal with all of that.

I think especially it has been hard on our leaders Dunk and Gross who not only have played every possible minute but also dealt with international call-ups at a relatively late stage in their careers.

De Zerbi needs to decide what he wants to do, and quickly. Either he gets with the plan, or he moves on and we bring in another manager at the end of the season and give them time. Crucial to this is identifying priorities in our recruitment. Both Tony and De Zerbi will have been frustrated to have missed out of Kudus and Dewsbury-Hall and those kind of signings at that much harder to nail down when you've finished 12th or 13th, as opposed to 6th.

On that score this is a window not to gamble on kids or spunk huge money and wages but it is a window where we need to be smart. A player I like a lot who could provide height, help tighten up the defence, shoot from distance, carry the ball, pick a pass or put in a cross, has Prem and international experience and still only 26 is Sander Berge.

Personally, I do not think that De Zerbi is ready for an elite job, I don't think he has the emotional intelligence yet. But I could see him thriving in 2024/25 without the distraction of Europe that will test Villa, Spurs, Newcastle, Man Utd and possibly a Klopp-less Liverpool, especially if the bulk of the injuries clear up and the likes of Mitoma, March, Enciso and Ferguson return to form.

 

[GT49er]

For me, the main thing that's gone wrong, is the opposition kicking the ball into our net more frequently than we've kicked it into theirs.

Naive and simplistic!.

 

[pigmanovich]

And we got Barco, who is also making an impact, and has probably got a higher ceiling than both Wharton and Rogers (although I agree both of them are very decent players).

We also (incidentally) bought four other youngsters who are definitely “ones for the future”, and did the deal for Osman.

And were obviously pushing to sign KDH though some will argue with insufficient zeal. We were clearly open to making mid-season signings, we just didn't get (enough of) them over the line.

 

[chaileyjem]

Totally agree.
Like someone said, it's a combination of things, and some blame has to go to RdZ, for sure. However, there is this thing about age, even if it is just one aspect of the model/transfer policy. This season our older players are all a year older than last season (stating the obvious, but it matters), and overall the younger ones are younger.
In contrast, other teams have more players in their prime (perhaps very approximately ages 23 to 31??), and that difference has become more and more important (we look less capable of doing anything against them on the pitch) as the various factors mentioned in this thread have taken their toll.
We've got to keep hold of the likes of JVPH and João Pedro who are approaching their prime. If that's not 'the model', I fear the model's unsustainable.

Well we have March, Mitoma, Estupinan, Van Hecke, Pedro, Igor, Gilmour, Lamptey Adingra, Moder - all in their "prime" - a decent core of the squad if its just a numbers game (or do you really mean - injuries, form, how RDZ uses them - any other manner of reasons and do other clubs have "more" players who are 23-31 ). And are Dunk, Welbeck Veltman, Gross, Lallana, Steele ALL too old ? or do you mean too injury prone - all of them ? (Except the ones who are good perhaps) , and then the youngsters - Ferguson, Enciso, Hinshelwood, Baleba, Barco, Buonanotte,, Offiah, Verbruggen - too young ? , out of form, or again is it injuries, - or perhaps its how RDZ decides to use that squad, his tactics and team selection...

The Albion "model" last year delivered £100m profit and next year we'll be in our 8th consecutive year in the PL. Bit too early to write it off as "unsustainable" even if we sell a couple of players in the summer (pretty unlikely JPVH and Pedro are going anywhere and more likely other clubs HAVE to see due to FFP than ALbion) or to just say - our poor form under RDZ in the last couple of months is our refusal to buy 3 -4 more players who are 25.

 

[dazzer6666]

This is where I think it has gone wrong:

• Poor Recruitment (Fati, Dahoud, etc.)
• Lack of Investment
• More Matches
• Players Underperforming, Lack of Motivation (RDZ departure?)
• Poor Tactical Decisions (Changing Keepers, Set-Pieces, etc.)

Not injuries ?

 

[Krafty]

Not injuries ?

Of course. However, I would put that down to lack of investment and more matches.

 

[Pevenseagull]

Bloody hell. Can someone (anyone) please start a thread about something good about the Albion? Instead of trying to be wannabe managers?

The wannabe managers is one thing, it's the wannabe owner chairmen that really gets me.