[Misc] Christians seem to be really good people

[Live by the sea]

Most of my friends are either Christian , Jewish or atheists . There is absolutely no difference in the way they behave in their lives that I can see . They all work hard , like a laugh , enjoy themselves and are supportive of various charities that are close to their hearts for one reason or another.

 

[Commander]

Where does it say that?

I don't know, I'm trying to remember my Sunday School teaching from about 35 years ago. Doesn't it say something about that, and about the Sun and the planets all orbiting the Earth?

 

[kuzushi]

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah....
You believe what you want that is fine, crack on.

I believe what seems true to me.
Do you not do the same thing?

Stop trying to convince others that do not, why do this ?
Unless of course your having doubts about your faith ?

Not really. I don't really have doubts about the resurrection, for example.
My answers are yes, yes and yes, which leaves me then looking at why the disciples were so convinced that Jesus had risen from the dead. I don't buy Ehrman's group hallucination hypothesis. Maybe you do.

You can show me as many crackpot discussions you can find on GodTube as you want, you will NOT alter my mind.

So you are closed-minded.

I can tell you one thing, your wasting your time on me.

Your poxy religion has cost millions of lives, they have invaded countries, tortured, enslaved, raped, pillaged and sodomised all over the world throughout the centuries all in the name of your so called jesus and god.

People can do lots of things in the name Jesus, but are they really following him?
All the things you describe are on them, not him.
Stalin killed millions, so did Mao. Both atheists.
And the Khmer Rouge, and the French Revolution. All atheistic movements. Humans don't need God as an excuse to commit atrocities.
You have to be careful to differentiate between whether the fact that sometimes they use him as an excuse means that they are doing what they're doing because of God, or whether they'd do it anyway and are just trying to justify it by using God.

I am not comfortable with that, if you are then fine.

No, I don't like those things. But it's what humans do.
You're using atrocities committed by humans to attack religion. You could just as easily do the same to attack atheism.

 

[kuzushi]

Find out more about seventies prog rock right now! (Or perhaps you CBA. Can't blame you. Most of it's rubbish).

I probably could be arsed, and probably will, but does the fate of my eternal soul depend on researching seventies prog rock?

 

[kuzushi]

I don't know, I'm trying to remember my Sunday School teaching from about 35 years ago. Doesn't it say something about that, and about the Sun and the planets all orbiting the Earth?

You're better qualified than I am to know what was taught at your Sunday School 35 years ago. Which church was it at?

 

[Psychobilly freakout]

I believe what seems true to me.
Do you not do the same thing?


Not really. I don't really have doubts about the resurrection, for example.
My answers are yes, yes and yes, which leaves me then looking at why the disciples were so convinced that Jesus had risen from the dead. I don't buy Ehrman's group hallucination hypothesis. Maybe you do.

I do not have "doubts" I DO NOT BELIEVE

So you are closed-minded.

No, I am not, I just do not believe any of it.
None...

People can do lots of things in the name Jesus, but are they really following him?
All the things you describe are on them, not him.
Stalin killed millions, so did Mao. Both atheists.
And the Khmer Rouge, and the French Revolution. All atheistic movements. Humans don't need God as an excuse to commit atrocities.
You have to be careful to differentiate between whether the fact that sometimes they use him as an excuse means that they are doing what they're doing because of God, or whether they'd do it anyway and are just trying to justify it by using God.

You have named some horrible leaders and have skipped over the invasions of countries, tortured, enslaved, raped, pillaged and sodomised all over the world throughout the centuries all in the name of your so called jesus and god.
And blamed it on people, these people did it in the name of your god....
is the pope not a leader on Earth anointed by god.

No, I don't like those things. But it's what humans do.

Oh that's ok then, nasty humans, made in the image of GOD

You're using atrocities committed by humans to attack religion.

I give up, you will not admit that "Christianity" is responsible in anyway !

You could just as easily do the same to attack atheism.

We are not having a discussion about atheism are we ?

 

[Bold Seagull]

I think that God is expecting us to use a bit of common sense.
Talking snake. Sounds a bit mythical. Allegorical. Like I said, even St Augustine sussed that much out. That's where I stand on that at the moment, pending some sort of divine revelation about it. I know there are believers who take it literally, and I suppose they could be right, but I remain to be convinced.

The gospels record some 37 miracles, but without the resurrection we wouldn't have Christianity. The gospels were committed to written form some 40 to 100 years after the resurrection which for that period of time the info was passed on as word of mouth originating from a handful of people. What scholars agree is that the gospels were written for the growing religion and by the time they were committed to text, the religion was already up and running and gaining in size. Common sense would suggest that after decades of passing time with a growing belief, that the gospels would be written with considerable embellishment, and creativity to deliver what the readers want to hear, and to make it all the more convincing.

It's not too much of a stretch that if you believed Jesus was the son of God during his life, then to convince others of your faith and belief, adding the resurrection story is a perfect device for that convincing (such as you are doing) of his devine providence. The context of this time period is of great oppression, tyranny and hardship with a desperation to believe something better is possible.

You make a decision not to take one thing literally but another thing as indisputable fact. Is a strange one. As other religious people on this thread have said, and a vicar I know to be fair, it isn't necessary to for these things to be fact, they have faith in the gospels tell a reasonable account of what happened. I've not met or chatted to anyone other than yourself though that believes children will go to hell if they haven't heard of Jesus. No matter how moderate you think you are, that is a fundamentalist view.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

I believe what seems true to me.
Do you not do the same thing?


Not really. I don't really have doubts about the resurrection, for example.
My answers are yes, yes and yes, which leaves me then looking at why the disciples were so convinced that Jesus had risen from the dead. I don't buy Ehrman's group hallucination hypothesis. Maybe you do.


So you are closed-minded.


People can do lots of things in the name Jesus, but are they really following him?
All the things you describe are on them, not him.
Stalin killed millions, so did Mao. Both atheists.
And the Khmer Rouge, and the French Revolution. All atheistic movements. Humans don't need God as an excuse to commit atrocities.
You have to be careful to differentiate between whether the fact that sometimes they use him as an excuse means that they are doing what they're doing because of God, or whether they'd do it anyway and are just trying to justify it by using God.


No, I don't like those things. But it's what humans do.
You're using atrocities committed by humans to attack religion. You could just as easily do the same to attack atheism.

https://www.thattheworldmayknow.com/crusades

 

[Blues Guitarist]

So the old testament at least isn't factually accurate. Good to know.

As I mentioned earlier - if the creation story is fictional, Adam is fictional, and (according to Luke) Jesus can trace is lineage to Adam, so Jesus is also fictional.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

Christianity: An Ancient Egyptian Religion https://amzn.eu/d/iyM8vcH

This is a very interesting book arguing that Christianity is an Ancient Egyptian Religion.

 

[Psychobilly freakout]

Christianity: An Ancient Egyptian Religion https://amzn.eu/d/iyM8vcH

This is a very interesting book arguing that Christianity is an Ancient Egyptian Religion.

View attachment 162505

I have said this all along, Jebus went to Egypt and plagiarised a religion

 

[Stato]

I probably could be arsed, and probably will, but does the fate of my eternal soul depend on researching seventies prog rock?

Not at all. That's something it has in common with Christianity.

Now if you want to talk soul, - actual soul. That exists in the temporal plane, I could talk for hours. I'm a confirmed antitheist, but can recognise that great art is inspired by many things, including faith. If my local CofE church had something like this on offer, it wouldn't make me believe, but I'd definitely be down there every Sunday:

 

[Happy Exile]

Christianity: An Ancient Egyptian Religion https://amzn.eu/d/iyM8vcH

This is a very interesting book arguing that Christianity is an Ancient Egyptian Religion.

The synopsis is in the link.

I haven't read that book but there are similarities between ancient Egyptian religious beliefs and practices and Christianity that mean I wouldn't be surprised if elements were borrowed and became part of Christian legend. Also quite inconveniently if someone was to try and choose which son of god to believe to be the right one, at least one of the Pharaohs (one of the Ptolemy's from memory) was persecuted by Romans, was believed to be a son of god by some of his followers (but not all), was believed to have been resurrected by some of them after his death and was then worshipped as god by far more people.

 

[monty uk]

Well, unlike some people I go where the evidence leads. I could be wrong, but who am I to argue with the scientists?
Now as to whether or not Genesis is to be taken literally, that's another thing. St Augustine of Hippo contended that it was not, and that was a millennium and a half before Darwin.

Nah. I've never taken Genesis literally either.

Especially with lines like "Me, I'm just a lawnmower. You can tell me by the way I walk".

Now that's just plain daft. But there again, I'm an atheist.

 

[birthofanorange]

Nah. I've never taken Genesis literally either.

Especially with lines like "Me, I'm just a lawnmower. You can tell me by the way I walk".

Now that's just plain daft. But there again, I'm an atheist.

Yet lines like: "Six saintly shrouded men, move across the lawn slowly. The seventh walks in front, with a cross held high in hand..", might be exciting for our resident believer of 'facts'.

 

[Commander]

You make a decision not to take one thing literally but another thing as indisputable fact.

And that, in a nutshell, is why I can't get on board with religion. It's either the word of God, or it isn't.

 

[kuzushi]

I do not have "doubts" I DO NOT BELIEVE

No, I am not, I just do not believe any of it.
None...

You have named some horrible leaders and have skipped over the invasions of countries, tortured, enslaved, raped, pillaged and sodomised all over the world throughout the centuries all in the name of your so called jesus and god.
And blamed it on people, these people did it in the name of your god....
is the pope not a leader on Earth anointed by god.

Oh that's ok then, nasty humans, made in the image of GOD

I give up, you will not admit that "Christianity" is responsible in anyway !

I think Jesus himself made it clear that he wanted people to love each other, and treat each other well.
Christians, however, can be responsible for all sorts of nonsense. But that's on the Christians, not on Jesus.

In Japan, the Portuguese were the first Europeans to arrive.
They told the Shogun about Christianity, and he listened with interest. They talked about Jesus, and how he said we must love each other, and the Shogun was impressed and allowed them to evangelise within the country and set up churches. Then other Europeans arrived from England and Holland, and they too told the Shogun about Jesus and love, and he thought, ah yes, I know all about this. It's good. But when the Portuguese learned that the Shogun had been listening to the English and Dutch, and letting them proselytise within Japan, they objected, and said that they were evil heretics, and the Dutch and English said much the same about the Portuguese, and the Dutch and English and Portuguese started fighting and bickering among themselves. And so the Shogun, very disappointed, concluded that all the Christians were hypocrites, kicked them all out of the country, had loads of Japanese Christian converts crucified, and closed the country to the outside world for about 300 years.

We are not having a discussion about atheism are we ?

It's a discussion about Christianity mostly, but other topics can crop up.
We do digress sometimes.

 

[kuzushi]

I've not met or chatted to anyone other than yourself though that believes children will go to hell if they haven't heard of Jesus. No matter how moderate you think you are, that is a fundamentalist view.

Can you show me where I said that children will go to hell?

 

[Psychobilly freakout]

I think Jesus himself made it clear that he wanted people to love each other, and treat each other well.
Christians, however, can be responsible for all sorts of nonsense. But that's on the Christians, not on Jesus.

In Japan, the Portuguese were the first Europeans to arrive.
They told the Shogun about Christianity, and he listened with interest. They talked about Jesus, and how he said we must love each other, and the Shogun was impressed and allowed them to evangelise within the country and set up churches. Then other Europeans arrived from England and Holland, and they too told the Shogun about Jesus and love, and he thought, ah yes, I know all about this. It's good. But when the Portuguese learned that the Shogun had been listening to the English and Dutch, and letting them proselytise within Japan, they objected, and said that they were evil heretics, and the Dutch and English said much the same about the Portuguese, and the Dutch and English and Portuguese started fighting and bickering among themselves. And so the Shogun, very disappointed, concluded that all the Christians were hypocrites, kicked them all out of the country, had loads of Japanese Christian converts crucified, and closed the country to the outside world for about 300 years.


It's a discussion about Christianity mostly, but other topics can crop up.
We do digress sometimes.

Your a patronising religious zealot, I can not longer converse with you.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Can you show me where I said that children will go to hell?

Why do you need to ask me that question, why don’t you just state I’ve got that wrong and you don’t believe that.