[News] 2030 and Electric cars.
- Thread starter Leekbrookgull
- Start date
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Rinkmaster
Active member
On a safety issue there will be a few blind or partially blind people who will have major problems crossing the roads as it is very difficult to hear an electric car approaching on some road surfaces.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,406
yep, shorter life with built in end of life of batteries, leading to more regular purchases of new vehicles. i think thats one of the points Atkinson was making? mandating vehicles to be smaller, lighter, higher MPG longer life and recyclable would be better legislation. expect some rowing back to hybrids as the 2030 deadline arrives.
Neville's Breakfast
Well-known member
At the moment I would expect a major re think on the 2030 target. Batteries rely on nickel and the biggest supply is from Indonesia, the Philippines and Russia. The nickel futures market on the LME has been in turmoil for the last couple of years with confidence draining away from the contract after enormous volatility and cancelling of trades. Not much point setting an arbitrary date without reference to the materials required to make it work.
Petrol cars keep getting more efficient and cleaner . . . Theres a lot of work going on Developing synthetic fuels
Horses Arse
Well-known member
Absolutely spot on. Ban production of new cars. That is the answer.Interesting piece by Rowan Atkisnon on Electric cars
I love electric vehicles – and was an early adopter. But increasingly I feel duped | Rowan Atkinson
Sadly, keeping your old petrol car may be better than buying an EV, says actor Rowan Atkinsonwww.theguardian.com
Making huge electric vehicles and forcing folk to ditch perfectly serviceable cars is an environmental disaster.
Down with that sort of thing
The Grockle
Formally Croydon Seagull
We have an electric car that has a realistic range of 280 miles more than enough for our needs.
The network will need to expand to meet future needs but the next advancement will surely be upgraded batteries with 1000+ mile range. Innovation is normally pretty swift when its driven by consumer demand.
The network will need to expand to meet future needs but the next advancement will surely be upgraded batteries with 1000+ mile range. Innovation is normally pretty swift when its driven by consumer demand.
Deportivo Seagull
I should coco
Innovation is only as good as to what the physics or in this case the chemistry behind it will allow. There is a finite amount of current that can be stored and once that’s reach then that’s it. Then there is the problem of getting the ‘current’ into the cell and then efficiently discharging it.
chip
Active member
Ahem: electro-chemistry and charge (Coulombs), Mr Atkinson would have said this given his background
The Grockle
Formally Croydon Seagull
In case it wasn't obvious, i'm no expert but I still believe that current ranges will improve without a complete change in technology.
dejavuatbtn
Well-known member
Shame they didn’t standardise the battery housing and connections for all cars, then all you have to do is swap the batteries round at a garage (or battery station).
Deportivo Seagull
I should coco
Neither am I. I designed battery charging systems back in the nineties when lithium Ion first hit so I’m very much behind the on th3 science but the age old problem with batteries in general is efficiently (I) charging (ii) holding the charge and (iii) discharging. As yet I’ve not seen anything to say that Lithium is any different from other recharges. Interestingly there was a piece (I think in the IET periodical but can’t be sure) a while back where battery companies were going to look at the iron cells which were the first type of rechargeables.
FWIW, I think it’ll end up being either a hybrid system or hydrogen (provided we get the ability to make green hydrogen).
The Grockle
Formally Croydon Seagull
Well you sound very well informed. I'm very much behind the electric revolution but it suits our needs perfectly. If we were doing regular long journeys we'd be bemoaning the range and infrastructure but for us it's a dream and very cheap to run.
- Oct 12, 2022
- 1,975
To my mind the Polestar 2 is an underrated car. On the bigger picture, I would hope that we wouldn’t go 100% in on any single technology, for the simple reason that we create (if not a monopoly) then at least one or two points in the supply chain where a few organisations largely corner their market.
Look at how the oil companies/lobbyists have weakened our environmental regulations and extracted generous subsidies from our governments. We have been held to ransom by organisations who have acted to protect their profits at the expense of the health of the planet we rely on for life. It has then turned out that at least one of those companies had projected exactly this outcome in the 1970s and carried on exactly as they were. I very much do not want another small cozy cartel gaining too much power, having seen the effects of the oil industry on our world.
I’d far rather that we had two or three technologies in play, with at least one of them being reasonably straightforward to retrofit to existing vehicles. Ideally what you want is a few competing techs with just enough subsidy being provided to keep industry interested in refining all of them, and preventing one from becoming a monopoly technology.
Ideally at present you’d think battery electric, hydrogen and synthesised fuels could be the ‘holy trinity’, but I suspect we’re too short-term in our thinking to encourage all three.
Look at how the oil companies/lobbyists have weakened our environmental regulations and extracted generous subsidies from our governments. We have been held to ransom by organisations who have acted to protect their profits at the expense of the health of the planet we rely on for life. It has then turned out that at least one of those companies had projected exactly this outcome in the 1970s and carried on exactly as they were. I very much do not want another small cozy cartel gaining too much power, having seen the effects of the oil industry on our world.
I’d far rather that we had two or three technologies in play, with at least one of them being reasonably straightforward to retrofit to existing vehicles. Ideally what you want is a few competing techs with just enough subsidy being provided to keep industry interested in refining all of them, and preventing one from becoming a monopoly technology.
Ideally at present you’d think battery electric, hydrogen and synthesised fuels could be the ‘holy trinity’, but I suspect we’re too short-term in our thinking to encourage all three.
Deportivo Seagull
I should coco
Major issues for me is the amount of infrastructure changes that will be needed to cope with everyone using electric cars. If you don’t have off road parking or a designated parking space you are toast regards charging ( who pays and is it practicable?). The changes to the power grid in terms of delivery and resultant surges. Early evening are going to be a nightmare for the power grid. For those that take journeys of over 250 miles it’s going to be a ‘mare. Those that can’t have electric cars will need to use public transport, can it take the demand?. Then there is the question of whether enough battery cells can be manufactured AND how do we safely dispose/recycle life expired batteries? What is the environmental cost of battery life cycle?
it’s a bit negative but as the saying goes ‘just because you can, doesn’t mean you should’. I suspect it will be a mixture of cleaner fossil fuels, electric cars and hydrogen systems … then again I could be talking bollocks.
dsr-burnley
Well-known member
- Aug 15, 2014
- 2,202
The average electric car battery weighs half a ton, so there's a lot more to it than standard fittings.
John Byrnes Mullet
Global Circumnavigator
I'll still be driving my 3.2L Merc in 2030. Great idea but how are the people on lower income jobs going to afford these
Just a thought around how are all the people in lower paid jobs going to get to work and do the jobs that most of us don't want to do? If you have 3 kids and a massive rent then a bike or bus is not an option. Your very privileged to own such a motor.
dsr-burnley
Well-known member
- Aug 15, 2014
- 2,202
I reckon it will be the other way. Ranges will stay about the same or even less but recharging will get quicker.
What they need is some form of battery than can be easily and quickly recharged but isn't made of rare earth materials, because obviously there is no point attempting to replace all the petrol cars in the world if the material to make the batteries does not exist. Time will tell whether that is physically possible.