[News] Pedestrian jailed for manslaughter

[drew]

Looking at the video, I don't think the pedestrian forced the cyclist to fall into the path of traffic. A cyclist in control of their bike should have been able to stop. And I don't think they should have known their actions would be likely to kill anyone.

I'm guessing that the following accident was horrific, and that the pedestrian's actions from then on are a large part of the reason they were found guilty.

Down to interpretation. She is clearly gesturing at Celia Ward and continues to do so just as the cyclist comes into shot. This wasn't some young tearaway cycling at break neck speed on the path. Auriol Grey could easily have stepped further to her right but she held her ground and continued to gesture. It's that combination which I think most people will see as 'forcing' the cyclist to try and take evasive action which saw the bike go off the kerb with tragic consequences.

 

[Deleted member 37369]

Funny how shared paths seem to work in other countries but seem to cause conflict in this country. The wide prom on the seafront at Nieuwport (I think it's called) in Belgium is a shared space for pedestrians and cyclists (or was when I went there about 10 years ago. Plenty of both pedestrians and cyclists, as well as kids in hired pedal cars yet no sign at all of conflict. The cyclists just ease there way along, the odd tinkle of a bell and no-one gets upset.

Contrast that to the prom at Worthing. Similar width but you get (1) some groups of pedestrians who delight in stringing themselves out right across the prom to basically force any cyclist to stop and (2) some cyclists charging along at unsafe speeds with no hands on the handlebars forcing pedestrians out of the way. I saw examples of both yesterday within the space of about 10 minutes.

The problem is less a lack of space and more a lack of consideration for others in my view, whether that be pedestrian, cyclist or driver

This is spot on ... the 'cyclists' you describe in (2) wind me up as someone who makes a point of riding respectfully.

This is a sign on N2 near The Perch, Lancing. It describes what you mention in point (1) perfectly.

It asks for everyone to be courteous (if only)! I've lost count of the times I've had comments from pedestrians saying, "wow ... someone has a bell on their bike they actually use". Most times I have a nice little exchange of thank you/good morning or afternoon as I go past. But some really don't want to get out of the way ... even after I've range my bell a few times. When I do eventually get past, I exaggerate my thank you and good morning ... and it's quite amusing when they keep their heads down and really don't want to make eye contact!

 

[rippleman]

Cycling on roads is faster in my experience for various reasons, including roads have a level surface.

Cycling elsewhere is just safer, you're not next to 1.5T projectiles.

But cycling "elsewhere" is unlawful. And it is dangerous.

A cyclist or e-scooter rider at 25mph on the pavement would do serious damage to a toddler or frail senior.

On a shared cycling/pedestrian space I will give way if necessary. But not on a pavement.

Road I work on has a cycle lane but cyclists ignore it and still ride on the pavement.

 

[drew]

Ask Lincolnshire County Council.

View attachment 157943

Isn't that an attempt to make it safer for cyclist going ahead so that it reduces the risk of motorist turning left across a cycle on nearside of the road?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Looking at the video, I don't think the pedestrian forced the cyclist to fall into the path of traffic. A cyclist in control of their bike should have been able to stop. And I don't think they should have known their actions would be likely to kill anyone.

I'm guessing that the following accident was horrific, and that the pedestrian's actions from then on are a large part of the reason they were found guilty.

You clearly don’t understand how law works do you? The were not found guilty of manslaughter because they went shopping.

 

[Algernon]

Manslaughter is correct after all, that's the verdict.

Pedestrian obviously not fully compos mentis (blimey look at her, listen to those that know her and watch her crazy lady antics).

There are at least 7 seconds for the cyclist to take avoiding action to pass the nutcase on the side closer to the railings than the road, or slow down, or stop but she didn't. She chose to cycle on and pass through a gap left to her by the mumbling shambling pedestrian.

I'm not saying the cyclist should've given way but I would've been a lot more cautious watching the obviously agitated old bat coming my way.
I'd have even considered whether the width of my bike's handlebars might've caught on the pedestrian or been snagged by a passing vehicle had I been facing that narrow gap.

It's extremely sad that someone didn't get to go home to their family and loved ones.
A totally avoidable outcome.

 

[LamieRobertson]

This is spot on ... the 'cyclists' you describe in (2) wind me up as someone who makes a point of riding respectfully.

This is a sign on N2 near The Perch, Lancing. It describes what you mention in point (1) perfectly.

View attachment 157944

It asks for everyone to be courteous (if only)! I've lost count of the times I've had comments from pedestrians saying, "wow ... someone has a bell on their bike they actually use". Most times I have a nice little exchange of thank you/good morning or afternoon as I go past. But some really don't want to get out of the way ... even after I've range my bell a few times. When I do eventually get past, I exaggerate my thank you and good morning ... and it's quite amusing when they keep their heads down and really don't want to make eye contact!

Dog walkers (we havnt talked about them yet ) with their thirty foot leads are the tricky one’s on that path

 

[Deleted member 37369]

But cycling "elsewhere" is unlawful. And it is dangerous.

A cyclist or e-scooter rider at 25mph on the pavement would do serious damage to a toddler or frail senior.

On a shared cycling/pedestrian space I will give way if necessary. But not on a pavement.

Road I work on has a cycle lane but cyclists ignore it and still ride on the pavement.

You've just blown your argument by talking about e-scooters and cyclists riding ay 25mph on a pavement

Anyone that is capable of riding at that speed will be on a fast road - not a pavement! Something does need to be done about youngsters that are old enough to be on the road and ride recklessly (no hands and wheelies) on pavements. Mind you, I've seen these same kids - in their school uniforms - pulling wheelies down the middle of the road! They're a danger to everyone!

I have absolutely no issue with very young kids and the older generation riding on pavements. Neither will be doing so recklessly and would be putting themselves in danger if they were riding on our roads.

What if 77 year old Celia Ward was riding on a mobility scooter ... possibly going at the same speed as on her bike. I wonder how Auriol Grey might have acted then. And if the result had been the same, I wonder what the reaction might have been like on here!?

 

[Deleted member 37369]

Dog walkers (we havnt talked about them yet ) with their thirty foot leads are the tricky one’s on that path

Definitely! I've had one of those leads wrapped around my legs on that path ... fortunately I was walking and not cycling on that occasion ... so I just had a little stumble rather than a potential fall off my bike!

 

[Eric the meek]

This is spot on ... the 'cyclists' you describe in (2) wind me up as someone who makes a point of riding respectfully.

This is a sign on N2 near The Perch, Lancing. It describes what you mention in point (1) perfectly.

View attachment 157944

It asks for everyone to be courteous (if only)! I've lost count of the times I've had comments from pedestrians saying, "wow ... someone has a bell on their bike they actually use". Most times I have a nice little exchange of thank you/good morning or afternoon as I go past. But some really don't want to get out of the way ... even after I've range my bell a few times. When I do eventually get past, I exaggerate my thank you and good morning ... and it's quite amusing when they keep their heads down and really don't want to make eye contact!

Isn't it a sad indictment of our society that the council feels it necessary to put up a sign that tells people to please be courteous to other prom users, giving explicit instructions to cyclists and pedestrians.

These things should be obvious. They are the decent and proper way to behave.

 

[Deleted member 37369]

Isn't it a sad indictment of our society that the council feels it necessary to put up a sign that tells people to please be courteous to other prom users, giving explicit instructions to cyclists and pedestrians.

These things should be obvious. They are the decent and proper way to behave.

Indeed

 

[dsr-burnley]

I slow down when cycling on a shared use path when approaching pedestrians and if they're walking in the same direction, either cough, say excuse me or ding my bell (which sometimes startles them more). On the Seafront and much to the annoyance of some other cyclists and bemusementof some pedestrians, I'll give way to pedestrians at the crossing points where the give way signs are painted. We are all pedestrians, most of us are drivers and some of us cyclists. Just put yourself in the shoes of the most vulnerable road / path user and have some respect FFS.

Bear in mind that the pedestrian may be stone deaf and unable to hear either the cough, the words, or the bell. My mother has been more than just startled on occasion by a cyclist zipping past within touching distance because he or she assumes that ringing the bell gives them the right to speed on.

Not aimed at you. I have no reason to doubt that you are considerate at all times. Just a general warning for cyclists, especially when passing old people who are more likely not to hear them.

 

[Billy the Fish]

Down to interpretation. She is clearly gesturing at Celia Ward and continues to do so just as the cyclist comes into shot. This wasn't some young tearaway cycling at break neck speed on the path. Auriol Grey could easily have stepped further to her right but she held her ground and continued to gesture. It's that combination which I think most people will see as 'forcing' the cyclist to try and take evasive action which saw the bike go off the kerb with tragic consequences.

This is why I think it's relevant to discuss if it's a shared path or not.

If it's not a shared path then Auriol Grey has right of way and shouldn't be under any obligation to move for someone who is breaking the law. Celia Ward should never have let it get to the stage where she had to take evasive action. You would teach your driving students to anticipate the hazard early and most likely stop until there was a safe amount of space to pass, I don't see why this is any different.

There's no evidence this is a shared path, even the council didn't have a record of it.

 

[Stat Brother]

Isn't that an attempt to make it safer for cyclist going ahead so that it reduces the risk of motorist turning left across a cycle on nearside of the road?

It is known as a 'Murder Strip'.

Best summed up by my favourite cycling meme

 

[Algernon]

No shared pavement or murder strip needed.

 

[dazzer6666]

This is spot on ... the 'cyclists' you describe in (2) wind me up as someone who makes a point of riding respectfully.

This is a sign on N2 near The Perch, Lancing. It describes what you mention in point (1) perfectly.

View attachment 157944

It asks for everyone to be courteous (if only)! I've lost count of the times I've had comments from pedestrians saying, "wow ... someone has a bell on their bike they actually use". Most times I have a nice little exchange of thank you/good morning or afternoon as I go past. But some really don't want to get out of the way ... even after I've range my bell a few times. When I do eventually get past, I exaggerate my thank you and good morning ... and it's quite amusing when they keep their heads down and really don't want to make eye contact!

The ‘shared path’ along The Drove and Falmer Road to Woodingdean works ok most of the time on matchdays but almost always have a cyclist or two that fails to realise a quick tinkle on their bell will create a space for them - would think it’s so much easier than waiting until you’re a yard away, slamming on your breaks and shouting ‘excuse me’ angrily but apparently not.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

This is why I think it's relevant to discuss if it's a shared path or not.

If it's not a shared path then Auriol Grey has right of way and shouldn't be under any obligation to move for someone who is breaking the law. Celia Ward should never have let it get to the stage where she had to take evasive action. You would teach your driving students to anticipate the hazard early and most likely stop until there was a safe amount of space to pass, I don't see why this is any different.

There's no evidence this is a shared path, even the council didn't have a record of it.

Very mixed messages from the government about this. (below copied and pasted)

Both Section 72 of the Highway Act 1835 and the Highway Code suggest it’s not legal for a cyclist to ride their bike on the pavement.

Section 72 of the Highway Act 1835 prohibits “wilfully riding” on footpaths, which refers to the path at the side of a carriageway. Since bicycles weren't as widely used in England as they are today, the original law from 1835 doesn’t exactly mention cyclists or bicycles. It also didn't mention pavements because that word is more recent.

The Highway Code also states: “You must not cycle on a pavement.”

The punishment for riding a bike on the pavement is an immediate £30 fixed penalty notice fine.

This is charged under Schedule 3 and Section 51 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988.

In 2014 the then minister for cycling Robert Goodwill reiterated the official line from the DfT that cyclists may ride on pavements provided they do so considerately, and that police officers need to exercise discretion.​

The original guidance came from Paul Boateng MP, who in 1999 said: “The introduction of the fixed penalty is not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of traffic and who show consideration to other pavement users when doing so. Chief police officers, who are responsible for enforcement, acknowledge that many cyclists, particularly children and young people, are afraid to cycle on the road, sensitivity and careful use of police discretion is required.”

It's utterly perverse to target vulnerable cyclists for using the pavements when the roads they are expected to use are lethal, as this tragic case further underlined.

Local councils really must stop neglecting the need for safe and continuous bike lanes everywhere and the police really need to focus their attention on the most dangerous road users - motorists.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

This is spot on ... the 'cyclists' you describe in (2) wind me up as someone who makes a point of riding respectfully.

This is a sign on N2 near The Perch, Lancing. It describes what you mention in point (1) perfectly.

View attachment 157944

It asks for everyone to be courteous (if only)! I've lost count of the times I've had comments from pedestrians saying, "wow ... someone has a bell on their bike they actually use". Most times I have a nice little exchange of thank you/good morning or afternoon as I go past. But some really don't want to get out of the way ... even after I've range my bell a few times. When I do eventually get past, I exaggerate my thank you and good morning ... and it's quite amusing when they keep their heads down and really don't want to make eye contact!

I don't mind cyclists ringing their bell, but did have one who cycled up behind me, which I didn't hear, nor shout 'on your right', which would have been ok, but barged past me, knocking my elbow as she passed me.

 

[Deleted member 37369]

The ‘shared path’ along The Drove and Falmer Road to Woodingdean works ok most of the time on matchdays but almost always have a cyclist or two that fails to realise a quick tinkle on their bell will create a space for them - would think it’s so much easier than waiting until you’re a yard away, slamming on your breaks and shouting ‘excuse me’ angrily but apparently not.

I agree I usually give a first tinkle someway off. Sometimes people hear it, in which they've got loads of time to give me some space. If I get no response I try again ... but if I end up getting very close I will slow to a virtual stop and then speak to them along the lines of, "morning ... could I just squeeze past please"?

But I also use my bell to warn people of my approach even if there's plenty of room to pass them ... just in case they happen to change course themselves just as I'm about to pass.

 

[Deleted member 37369]

I don't mind cyclists ringing their bell, but did have one who cycled up behind me, which I didn't hear, nor shout 'on your right', which would have been ok, but barged past me, knocking my elbow as she passed me.

That's just plain wrong! People like that probably go about their life in general in the same way!