[Politics] Nicola Sturgeon resigning

[highflyer]

With the opposing cabal of a certain type of middle aged and elderly Englishmen, praying for Scottish independence to spite their own country and Brexiteers.

This is a sad day

As an old lefty, I'd really rather Scotland stayed part of the UK, as independence would favour the Tories in future elections south of the border. On the other hand, I do have sympathy with Scottish people that are tired of having major decisions made on their behalf by a government that (in their eyes) they didn't vote for.

I am neutral on Brexit btw, so you can't lay that one on me!

 

[sparkie]

With the opposing cabal of a certain type of middle aged and elderly Englishmen, praying for Scottish independence to spite their own country and Brexiteers.

This is a sad day

I'm not sure many support Vladimir Putin's goal of breaking up the UK, but there may be one or two I suppose.

 

[highflyer]

Could you list her acheivements?

Could you list her acheivements?

You know there are two sides to every story.

Delivering progress: top 100 SNP achievements in government

The SNP delivered a raft of bold, progressive policies - all while majority of Scots pay less tax than elsewhere in the UK.

www.snp.org

You can quibble with some of course. But it's not all just fluff.

 

[Triggaaar]

That's a very low bar

Sort of. But the very core fundamental cause of the SNP is Scottish Indepence so it comes with the territory and can't really ever be ditched. If they are in power it is expected that they do everything to deliver it.

But when SNP candidates stood for election, they did so under the pretence of more policies that simply 'we'll deliver independence and that's all we'll do'.

 

[Weststander]

This doesn't make sense, how would it spite brexiteers by jettisoning a pro-remain region. The opposite is true if anything that it would re-inforce brexit, independence to screw up the Labour vote for 100 years as well.

I wish people would both stop using needless divisive identity politics and gaming the electoral system, poor post my friend.

It makes total sense. Short termism, spite taking over playing the long game.

Plus you're implicitly making the wrong assumption that Labour supporters only, gives a perfectly overlapping Venn diagram with Remain supporters. There are many millions of LibDem, Green and Tory supporters are a pro EU membership. All having zero interest in Labour ...... unless you have in your mind (something politicians do not want) of an anything but Tory alliance.

There are people, some post on nsc, who want the break up of the UK, to spite Brexiteers. Drawn to any thread championing the SNP, Sinn Fein or Welsh nationalism.

 

[Triggaaar]

On the other hand, I do have sympathy with Scottish people that are tired of having major decisions made on their behalf by a government that (in their eyes) they didn't vote for.

What about Lib Dem voters who never see their party in power? What about the people of Brighton and London who didn't vote for the Tories? Should they get independence too?

 

[Weststander]

You know there are two sides to every story.

Delivering progress: top 100 SNP achievements in government

The SNP delivered a raft of bold, progressive policies - all while majority of Scots pay less tax than elsewhere in the UK.

www.snp.org

You can quibble with some of course. But it's not all just fluff.

We can all offer weblinks, so here's another.

https://scottishlabour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/50-FAILURES.pdf

 

[Weststander]

I'm not sure many support Vladimir Putin's goal of breaking up the UK, but there may be one or two I suppose.

I'm still waiting one or two to join this thread in good time. The effective argument is that 5.3m Scots voted Remain, so the the UK should break up.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Reckon if you were to fast forward the geopolitical situation by a century, or maybe even half that, the UK will have gone the way of the USSR. (What's So Funny 'Bout) Peace, Love And Independence

 

[highflyer]

What about Lib Dem voters who never see their party in power? What about the people of Brighton and London who didn't vote for the Tories? Should they get independence too?

Errr, really?
You are equating the history and culture of Brighton or London with that of the Scottish nation?

You can make valid arguments for or against the union, but to pretend that somehow there is no more solid basis for the independence of Scotland than there is for Brighton is just...well...silly

Ah f*ck it. If you see them as equivalent, then there's really no point in discussing. I'm out.

 

[highflyer]

But when SNP candidates stood for election, they did so under the pretence of more policies that simply 'we'll deliver independence and that's all we'll do'.

See list provided above. Which took me less than 10 seconds to find on line.

 

[beorhthelm]

As an old lefty, I'd really rather Scotland stayed part of the UK, as independence would favour the Tories in future elections south of the border. On the other hand, I do have sympathy with Scottish people that are tired of having major decisions made on their behalf by a government that (in their eyes) they didn't vote for.

I am neutral on Brexit btw, so you can't that lay one on me!

most the major areas of government are devolved to Scotland though, they control health, education, police, transport, local government, some welfare, even have some taxation powers. every failure and problem (and there are apparently many) gets blamed on Westminster even when the powers are with Edinburgh.

 

[Triggaaar]

You know there are two sides to every story.

Delivering progress: top 100 SNP achievements in government

The SNP delivered a raft of bold, progressive policies - all while majority of Scots pay less tax than elsewhere in the UK.

www.snp.org

You can quibble with some of course. But it's not all just fluff.

A link to their own website? Wow, that's going to be impartial.

 

[highflyer]

We can all offer weblinks, so here's another.

https://scottishlabour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/50-FAILURES.pdf

Someone asked what they'd achieved (their failures seem to have been taken for granted by most here) and I provided an easily available lisr.
They are a government. they have done a lot. And made some mistakes. Overall I'd say done well, but that is because my priorities align with the things they have tended to focus on. Others will differ because that's politics (and Scottish Labour vs SNP seems particularly tribal).

 

[Insel affe]

She stood up for what she believed, fiercely patriotic fair play to her for that.

 

[highflyer]

A link to their own website? Wow, that's going to be impartial.

Which do you think they are lying about?
Of course it's not impartial. But it IS a list of achievements. Real ones.
I happen to think number 1, number 12, number 13 number 21, and number 22, for instance are all important. And as far as I know none of those are disputed

 

[TugWilson]

That's a very low bar

Sort of. But the very core fundamental cause of the SNP is Scottish Indepence so it comes with the territory and can't really ever be ditched. If they are in power it is expected that they do everything to deliver it.

The SNP`s main objective is surely attaining fair representation for Scotland , Independence on the face of it is purely for the shop window as it is totally unachievable . The UK`s population is 67.5m of which Scotland represents only 5.5m of that , it would litterally be impossible for them to become self sustaining , they would have to be very heavily subsidised - that is not Independence . If securing Scotland`s future is the main aim for the SNP , then surely remaining a part of the UK with a voice is the most advantageous position for them .

 

[Triggaaar]

Errr, really?
You are equating the history and culture of Brighton or London with that of the Scottish nation?

What? No, I'm equating people getting a government they didn't vote for, with other people who get a government they didn't vote for. What's that got to do with history and culture?

You can make valid arguments for or against the union, but to pretend that somehow there is no more solid basis for the independence of Scotland than there is for Brighton is just...well...silly

You seem to have misread the posts. I made no comment on the people of Brighton wanting independence, we weren't talking about independence, we were talking about people being ruled by a government they didn't vote for. The Scottish people, in case you've forgotten, voted against independence.

 

[highflyer]

most the major areas of government are devolved to Scotland though, they control health, education, police, transport, local government, some welfare, even have some taxation powers. every failure and problem (and there are apparently many) gets blamed on Westminster even when the powers are with Edinburgh.

Sounds like they may as well be properly independent then? Why are we all so worried about it. Then they can take the blame/credit for whatever happens.

 

[Weststander]

Someone asked what they'd achieved (their failures seem to have been taken for granted by most here) and I provided an easily available lisr.
They are a government. they have done a lot. And made some mistakes. Overall I'd say done well, but that is because my priorities align with the things they have tended to focus on. Others will differ because that's politics (and Scottish Labour vs SNP seems particularly tribal).

I thought you were out .

Lively thread isn't is!