So should just accept that hours get longer and wages get lower? When would you think enough is enough?
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[News] School strikes
- Thread starter Greenbag50
- Start date
Nobby
Well-known member
- Sep 29, 2007
- 2,609
see not sea
sector not section
sector not section
don't has an apostrophe
Bloody teachers...........
They have to get elected first. Oh wait, you meant this government
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,299
you can change jobs within public sector to get higher grades, promotions too. in teaching there's also payments for additional responsiblities, leadership roles. all just like private sector really. no one stays on starting salary, follow structured pay increases.
Not as many public sector roles het the structured pay increases you mention. Far more used to. Civil servants used to get “progression pay” within band but that doesn’t happen. So someone with ten year’s experience at a level gets the same as someone who is new to that grade. Teachers gets it for some years. But once reach the top you can’t go further. Not everyone can be on the senior scale so they get stuck.
That's not the choice in front of us, though, is it? That's short term thinking when we need to be looking to the long term. Short term: "kids have had enough disruption already, teachers shouldn't strike". Teachers don't strike, then in 5-10 years time "Schools can't find enough teachers to teach our kids". And to be honest, it's not even in 5-10 years time. My boy's school has been through a lot of teaching staff turnover recently, largely driven by losing teachers who've been forced to either change jobs or move to a closer school to reduce their costs. This has resulted in a lot less teaching experience at the school - and I know other schools in the area are having similar issues. Finding and keeping experienced teaching staff is already a big problem for schools, and it is almost entirely due to the 10+ year erosion of teaching salaries that mean the quality of life for teachers has dropped massively. This, in turn, impacts on how many people choose to qualify as teachers in the first place, as well as how many stay in teaching for the long haul.
It's a problem across the public sector. While private sector wage growth over the last 10+ years hasn't been great, at least it has been there. Public sector has suffered from stagnant wage growth during that period, and what we're left with now is a workforce who - if they can choose - are going to choose private because they're more likely to get paid at a level that supports a better quality of life. My Mrs and I do reasonably similar jobs. I'm private sector, she's NHS. I'm earning a *lot* more than she is, I get more holiday, I get better benefits (better pension, etc), and I qualify for a yearly bonus that increases the discrepancy even further.
Not saying salary levels is the only problem in services like the NHS (a lot of today's issues go back to idiotic policy changes implemented under Cameron and Osborne which have made it a lot harder for hospitals to discharge patients into social / community care). But salary is a large part of why recruitment into teaching, NHS, etc is so hard today.
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Easy 10
Brain dead MUG SHEEP
I don't have kids at school so its no skin off my nose. Just making the point.The unions have stated when they’re on strike, you could get a nice long skiing weekend in without any issues right now if you want. Go for it….and stop moaning.
Of course easy to quote increases in some private section jobs but can assure you not the case in the majority. Many are just holding on and staff suffer income wise until economy improves but very appreciative they keep job through these times.
Whilst I dont agree with them striking I have lots of time for good enthusiastic teachers but sorry but going back 20/30 years majority of teachers i have met have moaned about the job. Broad statement I know but my experience of meeting teachers through my children many just should not be in the job. I am lucky I have 2 close relatives who are teachers that are so enthusiastic and love there job but tell me that is rare. Again a broad statement but having met through children many just out of Uni . Several say not sure what to do but I can always go into teaching and many do but for wrong reasons.
For all you in vital public service jobs congratulations and it is appreciated. However I can assure you at present time it is not easy to change jobs in private section. Appreciate in senior management I have earned more money but the pressure on staff on whether profits/losses justify how many are kept on is tremendous. Although I would say unlike public section if you are poor at your job you would be out.
I look back on my school days and can stiill recall the teachers who were outstanding and feel they made a difference to my life . Although appreciate teaching is different now but to all you teachers out there appreciate you have a very safe job and in the great position to make a difference to peoples lives
Butch Willykins
Well-known member
If this means a 24hr break in receiving emails from the school office then I’m all for it.
So much the same as the private sector.
METALMICKY
Well-known member
- Jan 30, 2004
- 6,059
It may be a simplification but you make a good point. How many times do you hear " I'm not in this to make big money it's a vocation".
I’ve thought this for some time and I believe this subject was raised in the Times recently.
Public sector pensions are never mentioned by the unions when they put forward their pay demands, surprise, surprise.
This idea re shifting the overall ‘pay package ‘ around is surely in the thoughts of the powers that be.
The question of the sustainability of public sector pensions is a whole can of worms, but will have to be faced at some stage and I really don’t believe that many in the public sector appreciate quite how generous their pension schemes are compared to a lot of us who are dependent on the fortunes of the stock market for our pensions, wicked shareholders that we are!
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Comrade Sam
Comrade Sam
Yes times are tough for most not all. The rich are having a lovely time and enjoy playing public sector and private sector workers against each other. Public sector workers pay taxes and can't afford to strike. But we are not prepared to roll over and watch public health, education and social services be run into the ground at our expense. Striking (whilst it is still legal) is the only option left. I support all those fighting the new austerity including Amazon, BT and other workers in the private sector. There is money for all of us out there, look at the untaxed profits of the gas and electric companies, Amazon and the chairman of the Conservative party. They always find money when they want to - HS2 £44 billion, Crossrail £18.8 billion, smart meters - £12 billion (yes they really spent that much, the same amount as a 10% pay rise for all public sector workers would actually cost).
If you think the problems of society can be blamed on public sector workers I should just be thankful you're not blaming refugees.
I agree. This will open up a whole can of worms regarding taking kids out of school during school time. I do find it funny that my kids schools have a day care system on inset days that you have to pay for. I wonder if they will be cheeky enough to do the same on the strike days.
However, I do have a great deal of respect for teachers as they do commit to way over their 32.5 hour week.
Yes. I don’t think I said otherwise. I am just saying that the argument about moving up pay scales in the public sector, like many others, is old lies that people just parrot.
See my first post in this thread. Taking your argument to the extreme you think they should just volunteer? If not then you think they should complain when the pay and conditions are not good enough.
So when do you judge the pay and conditions are not good enough? (Assuming you don’t think they should all volunteer)
Just typical . So over the top. Where on earth do you get that I indicated problems of society should be blamed on public services.
Comrade Sam
Comrade Sam
Teachers don't have set hours, a sad oddity. Their hours are not the same as students. Do people genuinely believe Teachers arrive at 9 and leave at 3:30. Most arrive by 8 and leave at 6, then plan and mark in the evening and or at the weekend.
Careful. Soon you will get the people who don’t know that schools are open for most of the holidays so teachers can work too.
I was ignorant to much of what is needed until my wife started teaching. It never occurred to me that in a year 5 class she would have to plan for kids working at all different levels. It is not as easy as just cracking on with one lesson the same for all.
Parents want a “quick chat” and that is often hours over a week.
Nearly all of us went to school though so have a clear view. Just like we all understand the nhs and people shout “less administrators and more doctors” as a simple solution like doctors should be organising their own clinics and chasing people etc. great use of specialist skills.