[Other Sport] Homophobia alive & well down under

[Easy 10]

Only if you refused to wear it on the grounds that you believe homosexuals should be discriminated against.

I absolutely do not believe that homosexuals / LGBT should ever be discriminated against. As I said earlier, live and let live. Never have I had a problem with it - everyone has a right to live their lives exactly as they want if it does not harm anyone else.

I don't feel compelled to publically don rainbow colours to advertise it though. If my employers arbitrarily announced one day that I was now obliged to openly show support for LGBT, then there would be a conversation to be had.

 

[Easy 10]

For me it’s the double standards. If someone also refused to play on the sabbath or wear a shirt with betting advert then I would have a grudging respect but this to me is more homophobic than about religion.
FWIW, My mother was a staunch Catholic but had absolutely no problems with people being gay and she thought it sad that people would discriminate against them.


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This is getting into the realms of whataboutery though. My point is - IMO, we do not have the right to impose OUR beliefs on other cultures. In this case, we are talking about sportsmen who are going about their business as sportsmen, whilst choosing not to be included in political statements supporting LGBT. Is it any different from Zaha (and others) declining to take the knee because he felt it had just become a "lip service" meaningless gesture ? I didn't see any static for him taking that stance, and rightly so.

Everybody has (or should have) a CHOICE, without being branded racist, homophobic, disrespectful or whatever just for not toeing the line.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

This is getting into the realms of whataboutery though. My point is - IMO, we do not have the right to impose OUR beliefs on other cultures. In this case, we are talking about sportsmen who are going about their business as sportsmen, whilst choosing not to be included in political statements supporting LGBT. Is it any different from Zaha (and others) declining to take the knee because he felt it had just become a "lip service" meaningless gesture ? I didn't see any static for him taking that stance, and rightly so.

Everybody has (or should have) a CHOICE, without being branded racist, homophobic, disrespectful or whatever just for not toeing the line.

My issue is that many religious people pick and chose what they want from their religion of choice. Playing on the sabbath is fine but accepting homosexuality isn’t. I just find it a tad hypocritical.

As for the Zaha analogy. The gay version would be a gay person refusing to wear the shirt because it has no impact, so doesn’t really work.


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[Tyrone Biggums]

You saying they could be Gay for Pay?

I'm saying they might like a punt. Plenty of people do.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Actually it is very clear. Quote from BBC.

“But players weren't consulted and some object to the move on religious and cultural grounds.”

But you just ignored it ….


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I know it's very clear, it literally says "cultural grounds". You can be an atheist and it can be on "cultural grounds", get it?

 

[Easy 10]

My issue is that many religious people pick and chose what they want from their religion of choice. Playing on the sabbath is fine but accepting homosexuality isn’t. I just find it a tad hypocritical.

As for the Zaha analogy. The gay version would be a gay person refusing to wear the shirt because it has no impact, so doesn’t really work.

Well, you say that. But its difficult to quantify whether wearing rainbow laces, or having rainbow designs on football shirts actually "works". Yes it raises awareness and sends a positive message, but much like the perpetual "kick racism out of football" t-shirts and hoardings that we've seen for literally decades...does it actually work ? Going by the incidents we continue to see, I'm not convinced.

Thats not to say we should just give up. But gesture politics are rife. Its always easy to be seen to be doing the right thing, but much more difficult to engender real change.

 

[The Clamp]

I am undecided about sports teams but I am wary of corporations "rainbow washing" themselves. Putting a rainbow symbol on your website or hanging a flag in your offices. Obviously, if it is used in a non cynical fashion and shows genuine support, then that's a positive thing. But if it is there to placate and for the brass to "do their bit" then it needs reviewing. It can invite complacency. Hanging a flag is not "job done".

It's one thing to put a rainbow on a football shirt, quite another to actually engage policy to stamp out homophobia. I am not sure that forcing a homophobe to wear a rainbow shirt is the way to change hearts and minds.

 

[The Clamp]

Great minds. I’ve settled for:

View attachment 150344

Vintage nsc.

Oh dear. You should never settle for anything that low-res

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Well, you say that. But its difficult to quantify whether wearing rainbow laces, or having rainbow designs on football shirts actually "works". Yes it raises awareness and sends a positive message, but much like the perpetual "kick racism out of football" t-shirts and hoardings that we've seen for literally decades...does it actually work ? Going by the incidents we continue to see, I'm not convinced.

Thats not to say we should just give up. But gesture politics are rife. Its always easy to be seen to be doing the right thing, but much more difficult to engender real change.

Better to be seen to be doing the right thing (and annoying a few gammons) than not. Especially when it costs nothing

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

This is getting into the realms of whataboutery though. My point is - IMO, we do not have the right to impose OUR beliefs on other cultures. In this case, we are talking about sportsmen who are going about their business as sportsmen, whilst choosing not to be included in political statements supporting LGBT. Is it any different from Zaha (and others) declining to take the knee because he felt it had just become a "lip service" meaningless gesture ? I didn't see any static for him taking that stance, and rightly so.

Everybody has (or should have) a CHOICE, without being branded racist, homophobic, disrespectful or whatever just for not toeing the line.

I think we have every right to expect standards of behaviour from nations who want to trade, to play sport against us, and to have their people visit our lands. If they want to do none of the above (North Korea?) they can, of course, **** right off

 

[Deanbha]

The knee-jerk is always to condemn, but if these players are not overtly homophobic, hostile or abusive towards LGBT then I'm not sure why they should be obliged / press-ganged into wearing rainbow colours. Some of them are Polynesian descendants who may have had an entirely different upbringing in terms of beliefs and values regarding homosexuality. The West (quite rightly) preaches tolerance and acceptance of course, and I'm fully on board with that. But I'm not sure that forcibly dictating and imposing OUR values on this matter to everyone else in the world is the right way forward.

Like wearing a poppy, it shouldn't be an obligation. It should be a choice.

Couldn't of said it better myself.

 

[Deanbha]

What a disingenuous response. The two circumstances are not remotely comparable. The club were wearing this jersey to support inclusivity and diversity and the player flatly refused, and even worse the club are now back-tracking and apologising for not consulting the bigots beforehand.

If my work asked me to wear a palace shirt I wouldn't. Each to their own. People are free to choose what they do. I play football and didn't want to wear rainbow laces, does that make me a bigot?

Don't care either way

 

[Easy 10]

I think we have every right to expect standards of behaviour from nations who want to trade, to play sport against us, and to have their people visit our lands. If they want to do none of the above (North Korea?) they can, of course, **** right off

This is the thing though. Prior to this group of players saying 'no' to wearing the rainbow shirts, had they actively shown that they were 'homophobic' ? Had there been any incidents of them giving homophobic abuse to anyone, on social media or whatever ? Not to my knowledge. So in those terms, what is wrong with their standards of behaviour ? They are just sportsmen, from different backgrounds, and perhaps they hold different beliefs and values to US. If they are just getting on with their jobs of booting a ball around a pitch (and weirdly, deliberately, off it) whilst gauging a few eyeballs and dropping the odd prop forward on his head without engaging in any kind of agenda against LGBT, then what right do we have to tell them "ok regardless of your own personal religeon / beliefs / culture, you must now wear this rainbow shirt to fall in line with OURS" ?

Is that how this is supposed to work then ?

 

[topbanana36]

NRL players refusing to play in a match because their jerseys incorporate a rainbow design.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-62301091

Freedom of choice? Regardless of what is emblazoned on the shirt. Betting companies, breweries, butchers, a Christian Church. It will always not please everybody. I’m sure everybody in the greenhouse of NSC has once in their lives boycotted something.

 

[The Clamp]

I would not wear a rainbow flag for work.

For a start, I find the ever increasing colours represented on the flag, frankly ludicrous.

Secondly, unless I have shown you otherwise, you can go ahead and assume I am not phobic.

I supported gay rights before the flag and I shall continue to do so.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

The knee-jerk is always to condemn, but if these players are not overtly homophobic, hostile or abusive towards LGBT then I'm not sure why they should be obliged / press-ganged into wearing rainbow colours. Some of them are Polynesian descendants who may have had an entirely different upbringing in terms of beliefs and values regarding homosexuality. The West (quite rightly) preaches tolerance and acceptance of course, and I'm fully on board with that. But I'm not sure that forcibly dictating and imposing OUR values on this matter to everyone else in the world is the right way forward.

Like wearing a poppy, it shouldn't be an obligation. It should be a choice.

Just out of interest, what would you say if an Islamic player refused to wear an American Express Brighton shirt because of their Religion's position on usury, which is probably more “genuine” than objecting to LGBTQ+ Stuff on Christian terms.

And for the record, I have no problem with LGBTQ+ stuff. We had a gay couple next door to us for 20plus years - great neighbours. And the house-owner was a welder at the Carriage Works in Eastleigh, which to me seems fairly manly.

 

[Weststander]

Just out of interest, what would you say if an Islamic player refused to wear an American Express Brighton shirt because of their Religion's position on usury, which is probably more “genuine” than objecting to LGBTQ+ Stuff on Christian terms.

And for the record, I have no problem with LGBTQ+ stuff. We had a gay couple next door to us for 20plus years - great neighbours. And the house-owner was a welder at the Carriage Works in Eastleigh, which to me seems fairly manly.

The Albion angle crossed my mind, for a slightly different reason.

I would guess that the club would check out the ‘digital footprint’ of potential signings for any casual (or worse) homophobia etc, more than most other clubs.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

If my work asked me to wear a palace shirt I wouldn't. Each to their own. People are free to choose what they do. I play football and didn't want to wear rainbow laces, does that make me a bigot?

Don't care either way

There’s a difference between choosing not to wear rainbow laces and refusing to wear the official team shirt, however clumsily the inclusion of the rainbow stuff might have been dealt with.

 

[Easy 10]

Just out of interest, what would you say if an Islamic player refused to wear an American Express Brighton shirt because of their Religion's position on usury, which is probably more “genuine” than objecting to LGBTQ+ Stuff on Christian terms.

And for the record, I have no problem with LGBTQ+ stuff. We had a gay couple next door to us for 20plus years - great neighbours. And the house-owner was a welder at the Carriage Works in Eastleigh, which to me seems fairly manly.

I'd say he's probably signed for the wrong club, being as they've been our sponsors for 10+ years now.

On the wider point though, I certainly wouldn't think any less of him if it was against his own personal ethics and principals. It would be down to the club to either try to find a compromise, or if that wasn't possible then move him on I guess. But that player would always be potentially "dodging sponsors" with shirt sponsorship being what it is.

 

[The Clamp]

Unfortunately there is no way to say you’d rather not wear the rainbow shirt without appearing to be a homophobe. I understand people are finding their way in rapidly changing societal norms. Hopefully a balance will be struck at some point. I’m confident it will, I have faith in people.